It's being redistributed from BBJ to the Beast.

More 10nl tables please now that they don't have a fee guess I will play more of those instead of 25nl since I don't rake enough to collect on the beast i would like to keep my extra .18 in the lot

This is such a disappointment. If they want to keep The Beast atleast lower the 25NL Beast Pull to 10c.

What are they going to do with the money that has not been won from the BBJ? Please tell me 180k freeroll?

I am not understanding this. There is no longer a fee but do those tables count towards the beast? If they don't why didn't they just say the .05/.10 tables would be removed from the beast?

Would have much rather seen the Beast go away and the BBJ stay if Winning was determined to keep one of the two promotions. At least a casual player has a chance to hit the BBJ. A casual player has no chance of receiving one of the top prizes ever in the Beast. I'm sure some hate the fact that the Beast encourages multi-table grinders. Personally, I hate the fact that it encourages cheating. It's too easy for more than one player to play on the same account increasing their odds of taking down one of the top prizes with the Beast.

when does this go into effect? september?

im still seeing red tables at 10nl, and still see the bbj counter going up and up and up.

edit: ok i see it starts on sept 1.

wtf?

Jfc, this is even worse than before !

yep, #1 is for the taking in the USA. They drop the beast and other rake sucking schemes, stay trustworthy, communicate well, great software, etc, and i guarantee the volume of players makes them more money than the beast ever can. Waiting for the site to step up and claim it!

This is seriously gross. Threads have been made by posters here and the majority of them said they hated the beast more than the bbj itself, and yet WPN is keeping the beast.
At 25NL they are taking a WHOLE FRIGGIN BB worth of rake for the beast and no one ever plays the non JP tables at that level, is everyone ******ed?
I think paying 28% of the beast rake for a tournament entry while playing ring games is completely absurd. I bet all the hundreds of players at the bottom that don't qualify for beast cash would prefer the $55 dollars compared to a tournament entry.

Only good thing they did was remove the JP from 10NL.

this is all i needed to see to know this is a negative, was looking at this network as a possiblity after revolution because there such a hot mess, but based on 4-5 respected posters saying this is a negative without running the numbers guess ill continue avoiding the network .

Suck a dick, WPN. Suck it long. Suck it hard.

I have an idea Winning.

Cant you just rake us like a normal site?

Must you be so greedy?

Giving a handful of players thousands of our dollars for doing nothing but nitting up the games, slowing down the games, and playing mediocre poker, does not hide your greed and or the way you are charging 99% of us way over industry standards to use your virtual tables.

We arent that stupid.

Winning sucks, Im cashing out soon as I move some money around.

The BBJ is fun for recreational players, the Beast is not.

WPN's thought process:

Employee1: Hey, a lot of players are complaining about the Beast.

Employee2: I have an idea! Lets get rid of the BBJ, but instead of getting rid of the fee - we'll just have the money go to the Beast instead!

Employee1: Great idea! Everyone will surely love the new Beast!

Promotion Manager: Eh, whatever as long as we keep raping them with rake that only a handful of bots and team-players will see a return on.

I'm not sure I understand all of the vitriol. Are players mad that they didn't do away with both Beast and BBJ? Because looking at it, they aren't taking more rake with this new procedure. They're actually taking less for higher stakes players (25c instead of 50c per hand + normal rake) and doing away with the fee for the micro 5/10 tables.

Unless I'm reading this wrong...

Basically. Most players here, if forced to choose between the two, are choosing BBJP, even if their preference is neither. I can't imagine any recreational player anywhere likes the Beast.

There's no reason to keep it, it's just hurting the cash games on WPN, and for obvious reasons.

If they had simply gotten rid of the BBJP that would have at least been a step in the right direction and probably would have been appreciated by most players. But instead they expanded the Beast and are trying to pass that off as an improvement. I think the notion that more money is now being given back to more players is a lame argument. The Beast locks many of the players out of the rewards entirely which in fact makes the Bad Beat Jackpot infinitely more profitable to those particular players despite the small odds of actually being at a BBJP table when someone wins it.

In another thread, I referred to the Beast as Robin Hood in reverse. That's exactly what it is. It reflects a complete disregard for players raking less than $500 by taking their hard won money and redistributing it to the top regs. And there are many more players who rake even more than $500 who only get a portion of their money back. I have a strong hunch that the network has been taking advice from those who have been profiting from the Beast for quite a while now. Despite that it is probably the most hated promotion in online history, the Beast just grows and grows and has become a true Monster.

But it's not growing as a result of this implementation change, was my point. I guess if you're against either Beast and/or BBJ, then it still doesn't change your thought. But looking at the changes here, it's not adding any more rake costs to any players. It actually reduces it, for 2/4+ high stakes and .05/.10 micro players.

What are they expanding? They're leaving the jackpot itself where it is, stopping the rake from going into that, and just redirecting it instead to the Beast promotions. They cut the Beast rake for 2/4 tables and up in half - which is where a lot of the regs would be affected anyway, right? If anything, a reg playing 2/4 and up now only gets the benefit of using the higher points yield earned from higher rake at higher stakes (outside of the Beast rake) to move up the standings. Since, in any case, now the 25 cent cost is uniform across all stakes .10/.20 and up (it was 50 cents for 2/4+ before this).

GET RID OF THE BEAST! EVERYONE HATES IT!

I hate the Beast. Personally i prefer the BBJP. Software isn't up to standards to play the amount of time i need to be to compete for the beast.

It's not adding rake, but it's taking away the BBJ, which is -EV, and putting more money into the Beast, which is even more -EV.

At least you don't have to play 130k+ hands a month to bink the BBJ. As small as those odds are, they are better than putting all that money into the Beast, where you have zero chance of winning (if you're not mass tabling 14 hrs a day), unless I'm not understanding this change.

They aren't taking away the BBJ - it's just remaining a static amount. What that starting amount will be, I don't know (it's $182k as of 4pm EST today). But the formula for the BBJ kicks back 30% to keep it going. Since it's not hit all that often, as I understand it, it's still going to remain for some time. It just won't escalate from added rake - which is all funneling into the Beast now.

Any promotion relating to accumulating points or rake is going to favor the mass tablers, though. Unless a system is devised that factors amount of hands at a percentage in the formula (like, for instance - 100k hands = 20% of the calc), it will always be that way.

I don't understand the EV argument - players should know by playing at a jackpot table that their added rake goes towards a promotional leaderboard. If they have no desire or temerity to reach the playthrough needed to place on the leaderboard, and no desire to hit a de-escalating BBJ, why play on the jackpot table at all? Stick to the non-jackpot tables and you're excluded from any of this. Ignorance of what the purple tables are shouldn't be an excuse.

Sticking to the non jackpot tables is impossible unless you want to 1 table. They are buried in the lobby and the rec players have an almost zero shot of joining them.

Not really sure how you can say this. The jackpot and beast tables are clearly marked and can be filtered out completely. If everyone who doesn't like the beast would simply sit at non-beast tables then there would be tons of action. By sitting at the beast tables they are actually saying we approve of the beast. I've said it before, the only way the network will listen is if there is not enough playing the beast tables. Vote with your wallet people!