Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Notices

Winning Poker Network Sponsored Support forum for AmericasCardroom, BlackChip Poker, and Truepoker.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2014, 01:33 AM   #26
SantaCruz
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,164
Re: My money is gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirborneSapper9845 View Post
Many networks have "blacklists" of customers who have filed chargebacks of their poker deposits.

Sounds like OP was a d-bag. Santa Cruz, you seem a little naive about this issue, but you always have such strong opinions...just sayin
If you know something that we don't know, why don't you tell us what that is? We are all surmising about what happened in this thread, nothing more. Sounds to me that in calling the OP a D-bag and me naive you're the one with the strong opinions. One thing that I rarely do is call people names. You're just bringing your hurt feelings from another thread into this one. I haven't put down anyone in the thread whatsoever for their opinions. If you've come here to flame, flame somewhere else.

If the OP was on a blacklist, how did he get on the network to begin with? And why is he still allowed to play here? What does a blacklist have to do with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I hate poker! View Post
By the way I am not him as all my posts were deleted when the Carbon Poker section was deleted.
Who can forget that avatar? I had over 400 posts deleted myself.
SantaCruz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 02:25 AM   #27
dabunker1
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: philly area
Posts: 442
Re: My money is gone?

Right or wrong, I'm going to go with d-bag. Incompetent at the very least.
dabunker1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 04:20 PM   #28
EasierForest
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 54
Re: My money is gone?

UPDATE

I have been unable to play poker over the past few months because of the hell I have been going through with Winning Poker Network. To all of you drawing conclusions and calling me a douche bag although you have never even spoken to me, read on to hear the truth.

TIMELINE

Early January:

I make an account on America's Cardroom and deposit $100. Throughout the month I deposit another $200.

January 23:

I wake up to find my account cleared out. I contact support but do not receive a response. I later find out that this is how the chain of events unfolded:

In light of the Target credit card scandal, the Barclay's card recognized the initial $100 deposit I made as a suspected fraudulent charge. I was sent a text stating that I had been charged $101.13 by a housing company based in Malaysia and to text back "YES" if I would like to dispute this suspected fraudulent charge.

Being at work, I simply texted back "YES" because I knew for a fact that I had not sent $100 to a housing company based on Malaysia.

A few days later, I login to find my America's Cardroom account cleaned out. I find out eventually through support that I charged-back the $100 initial deposit I made. I was then told I would be refunded the $100 deposited from the Barclay's card and the $200 deposited from a Chase Visa card. Once I have been refunded the $300, I am supposed to redeposit using Western Union.

January 23 - March 30:

It's been over two months and I have not yet received my refund from America's Cardroom. I have sent over 16 emails to their support and made numerous calls to Chase and it's the same story every time. America's Cardroom claims that they have made the refund and that I have to wait still (two months later) and Chase claims America's Cardroom has not even attempted to initiate a refund.

Here is a look at the email thread I have had with their support:



And here is a look at the most recent email I have received from their support:



Summary

I have provided their support with bank statements to prove I have not yet been refunded for these transactions and I'm still awaiting my refund over two months later. Working with Winning Poker Network support has literally been a living hell on earth. What the **** am I supposed to do now?

Last edited by EasierForest; 03-30-2014 at 04:27 PM.
EasierForest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 04:32 PM   #29
djevans
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,462
Re: My money is gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EasierForest View Post
UPDATE

I have been unable to play poker over the past few months because of the hell I have been going through with Winning Poker Network. To all of you drawing conclusions and calling me a douche bag although you have never even spoken to me, read on to hear the truth.

TIMELINE

Early January:

I make an account on America's Cardroom and deposit $100. Throughout the month I deposit another $200.

January 23:

I wake up to find my account cleared out. I contact support but do not receive a response. I later find out that this is how the chain of events unfolded:

In light of the Target credit card scandal, the Barclay's card recognized the initial $100 deposit I made as a suspected fraudulent charge. I was sent a text stating that I had been charged $101.13 by a housing company based in Malaysia and to text back "YES" if I would like to dispute this suspected fraudulent charge.

Being at work, I simply texted back "YES" because I knew for a fact that I had not sent $100 to a housing company based on Malaysia.

A few days later, I login to find my America's Cardroom account cleaned out. I find out eventually through support that I charged-back the $100 initial deposit I made. I was then told I would be refunded the $100 deposited from the Barclay's card and the $200 deposited from a Chase Visa card. Once I have been refunded the $300, I am supposed to redeposit using Western Union.

January 23 - March 30:

It's been over two months and I have not yet received my refund from America's Cardroom. I have sent over 16 emails to their support and made numerous calls to Chase and it's the same story every time. America's Cardroom claims that they have made the refund and that I have to wait still (two months later) and Chase claims America's Cardroom has not even attempted to initiate a refund.

Here is a look at the email thread I have had with their support:



And here is a look at the most recent email I have received from their support:



Summary

I have provided their support with bank statements to prove I have not yet been refunded for these transactions and I'm still awaiting my refund over two months later. Working with Winning Poker Network support has literally been a living hell on earth. What the **** am I supposed to do now?
maybe you should contact live support? Also if you never charged back your CC this never would of happened.
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 04:33 PM   #30
EasierForest
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 54
Re: My money is gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans View Post
maybe you should contact live support? Also if you never charged back your CC this never would of happened.
Apparently there is nothing I can do right now. I'm just waiting for refund which I have not yet received for over 2 months. I have been on their live support multiple times and it's always the same thing: wait.

Last edited by EasierForest; 03-30-2014 at 04:42 PM.
EasierForest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 12:27 AM   #31
AirborneSapper9845
self-banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,451
Re: My money is gone?

Did you really think that the charge on your credit card was going to say "America's Card Room - We are an off-shore gambling site that uses 3rd-party payment processors to skirt around UIGEA so we can service the US market" ???

Of course the charge was going to be something weird. Have you literally never played Internet Poker before? And the little extra was your credit card charging you an International transaction fee.

Get a clue OP. You should never have texted back "yes" and disputed the charge.

You also did not say in your update whether Chase or Barclay's credited your account or reversed those transactions. Why would ACR give you money back AND your financial institutions do the same? You're not going to get a refund from BOTH.

You are going to get no pity from anyone here. You are experiencing inconvenience and hassle because of your own actions. Whether it was truly a mistake, or whether you set out to charge-back intentionally only you know, we can only speculate. I personally think the truth is somewhere in between. I think your knew those charges were related to poker but you told your CC companies to dispute them just to see if you could double dip not realizing that there were actually going to be consequences for your actions. Angle-shoot.

Regardless, even if it was truly an accident, it's still 100% your fault. The more you know about these overseas payment processors the more you realize it's not as simple as you wish to get these kind of situations taken care of quickly. Off-shore poker sites often use many different payment processors. They switch around, routinely get closed and have to reopen using different foreign banking accounts under different psuedo company names and billing codes, etc.

That's why even sometimes reputable poker sites sometimes send out bad checks for withdraws. It's because the payment processor they used to cut that check got shut down or seized or had to change account information in between the time the check was cut and when the person received it.

Blame Game:

15% UIGEA
90% OP
5% ACR
AirborneSapper9845 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 01:01 AM   #32
Nitefall
newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 44
Re: My money is gone?

I think you are misunderstanding where your refund will be coming from. WPN or ACR will not be sending you the money, and in truth have absolutely nothing to do with you getting your money back.

If I am reading this correctly, it sounds like you deposited using a credit card. You then either said the the charges were fraudulent, or said some charge was fraudulent. ARC should not be the one sending you the money in this situation, it is entirely possible ARC never even had the money, or voluntarily returned the money to your credit card company. When ARC support says refunded they mean refunded by your credit institution, not by them. It would be your credit card company that owes you the money.

When you make a charge on your card the money does not instantly get sent to the company that makes the charge. It may show up on your account like it did, but really the money was just placed in hold on your account until the banking system and company confirm the purchase. I have had a simple gas purchase form Kroger take 2 weeks to actually appear on my card, it simply showed as the $1 holding fee for those 2 weeks.

The actually money transfer can go through the same night as the charge, or it often takes a couple days for it to occur in reality. As I said sometimes it takes even longer, but the account statement will always show as if it occurred from the time of the sale.

For those of you who said the charge can only be denied at time of sale you are very wrong. Charge $25 in gas on a credit card. check your statement online right away, many cards will only show a $1 charge. Check back 4 days later and it will like show up as $25. This is simply a visible example of how it actually takes several days for the money to actually be transferred from the credit card company to the purchase company. It takes a little time to verify the purchase in all the banking systems.

If during this time, between purchase and verification, you report the charge as fraudulent, or should the credit card company find an issue(ie recognized the company as a poker website), then the company that made the charge never actually gets the money from the credit card company. This sounds like what happened to you.

You made the deposit. It took some time for the money to actually get transferred from the credit card company to ARC. Before ACR ever actually received money either you or your bank flagged the purchase as fraudulent. The end result is ACR never actually got any money in there bank account. They credit your account right away so you can play, and then tried to collect later. Then when the credit card company denies them the money they take back your account balance on ACR.

As to getting the money back from you credit card institution, this should have been fast and you need to contact them to straighten this out, not ARC. Once the money was flagged as fraud ARC can't do anything about it, only your bank.

In your post yesterday you show an email from ARC/WPN and they are using the term "refunded". I think they are meaning refunded from them to your credit card company, not refunded to your credit card account. Your credit card now needs to sort out the money. Simply because your credit card company gets the money back, if there is a fraud investigation, they may not return it to you right away until the matter is settled.
Nitefall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 12:59 PM   #33
EasierForest
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 54
Re: My money is gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirborneSapper9845 View Post
Did you really think that the charge on your credit card was going to say "America's Card Room - We are an off-shore gambling site that uses 3rd-party payment processors to skirt around UIGEA so we can service the US market" ???

Of course the charge was going to be something weird. Have you literally never played Internet Poker before? And the little extra was your credit card charging you an International transaction fee.

Get a clue OP. You should never have texted back "yes" and disputed the charge.

You also did not say in your update whether Chase or Barclay's credited your account or reversed those transactions. Why would ACR give you money back AND your financial institutions do the same? You're not going to get a refund from BOTH.

You are going to get no pity from anyone here. You are experiencing inconvenience and hassle because of your own actions. Whether it was truly a mistake, or whether you set out to charge-back intentionally only you know, we can only speculate. I personally think the truth is somewhere in between. I think your knew those charges were related to poker but you told your CC companies to dispute them just to see if you could double dip not realizing that there were actually going to be consequences for your actions. Angle-shoot.

Regardless, even if it was truly an accident, it's still 100% your fault. The more you know about these overseas payment processors the more you realize it's not as simple as you wish to get these kind of situations taken care of quickly. Off-shore poker sites often use many different payment processors. They switch around, routinely get closed and have to reopen using different foreign banking accounts under different psuedo company names and billing codes, etc.

That's why even sometimes reputable poker sites sometimes send out bad checks for withdraws. It's because the payment processor they used to cut that check got shut down or seized or had to change account information in between the time the check was cut and when the person received it.

Blame Game:

15% UIGEA
90% OP
5% ACR
1. I am new to online poker. Prior to playing on America's Cardroom, the only poker site I have played on was Ultimate Poker. All I had to do was go down to a station casino and deposit the money by cash.

2. I'm not sure how I am supposed to instantly recognize a payment for an off amount (like $101.13 or something similar, can't remember exactly) made to a business in a foreign country that is not in any way, shape, or form related to poker as being the deposit I made to America's Cardroom.

3. I did not charge back the payments made on my Chase account ($200 of the $300). It was their choice to simply refund me these funds. The fact that my innocent mistake led to them refunding my other deposits is the reason I have not been able to play for over two months.

I'm not asking for the pity of anyone. Simply put this has been a complete nightmare for me. It was in fact user error, but that does not mean that as a "paying customer" I don't have a right to be angry because the issue was not mediated quickly.

I was originally told it would take up to two weeks for this refund to occur and for me to get back to the tables. Then two weeks came. Then three weeks. Then four weeks. Then five weeks. Then six weeks. Then seven weeks. Then eight weeks. Then nine weeks.

If you read the above and you honestly believe I made anything more than an honest mistake that any beginner is susceptible to, then I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
EasierForest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 01:52 AM   #34
PokerEngineer
banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 23
Re: My money is gone?

You would think that the deposit you made did not show on your account and if a charge did come in that amount that it would have been your deposit. you need to pay attention. I think it is best you deposit online with WU or money gram so you know it is them and have no issue .
PokerEngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 03:22 AM   #35
SantaCruz
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,164
Re: My money is gone?

The way I'm reading it, the OP made an initial deposit of $100 dollars and then made a second deposit of $200. He received some misinformation about the initial deposit of $100 so agreed to dispute it. The second deposit of $200 was taken from his account by ACR because they thought that he made a chargeback. So the credit card company owes him about $100 and ACR owes him the difference between the $200 and the money that was charged back which would be around another $100.

So if I understand this correctly, the OP is owed approximately a total of $200, about half from the Barlay CC and about half from ACR, which ACR is trying to refund him (actually more than they owe) in the form of a chargeback from the Chase CC.

One thing that I said all along in this thread is that I believe that this was an honest mistake and I hope all of this gets worked out. And as I said before, I think that his fish2pro blog shows that the OP is an asset to WPN.
SantaCruz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 03:32 AM   #36
kahntrutahn
Minbet Millionaire
 
kahntrutahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Slowly improving my website.
Posts: 7,611
Re: My money is gone?

It does take time to refund credit cards in this industry, for US players using offshore sites(all offshore sites). WPN is legit and the will refund your money.

--
Kahn
kahntrutahn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2017, 05:04 AM   #37
Tiltedmisery
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
Re: My money is gone?

same thing had just happened to me, just straigthening out with acr customer service though. but then was curious to see if it had happened to anyone else so i stumbled here. My situation is different because i did not dispute it and the bank says there is no history of a dispute. i deposited months ago and already paid off my credit. just wierd, probably because of this target scandal?
Tiltedmisery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2017, 02:16 PM   #38
Tiltedmisery
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
Re: My money is gone?

just looked at the date of this forum and realized its a couple years old so the target scandal must not have been the reason why this had happened to me. maybe the credit company acted on their own thinking it was fraud or learned that it was a deposit into a casino...
Tiltedmisery is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online