DEEP STACK TURBOS PLEASE!!! Ill play me more personally i dont play anything less than the 109and the $55 (which starts to early now so i dont reg).

I like the structure of the 109 5k! 10 min levels and it goes fast. Can we get the same thing in a $55???? I love that structure More mid level things please with that structure

He is finally getting it....

Let's not nit pick or micro analyze..

I run retail.. each department has to operate under a certain budget.
You can't go extreme in any direction but slowly fine tune your department without risking the average daily sales and yet try to increase it..

Let's give winning_td a break..

I'm not Macy,s or will ever be BUT I can maximize profit and volume as the number 3 guy in New York.

I think a.c.r. and the individual in charge of tournaments had to work under the same parameters...

The on demands that will late for 30 or 45 or 60 is a start and a perfect litmus test..

If any body wants less can go to sit n go,s

30/45/60 late is perfect to increase prize pool and it feels normal..

The other tournaments can have faster blinds and lower starting stack but we don't want those 2 changes cannibalizing each other. It will fulfill both opposing groups needs..

If the on demands start to crush, they will get it.

If the 1/3/5/10 on demands have an hour late it would be a nice prize pool and I could get a half a dozen in and have fun..

For.The g.t.d. rebut and add on is good option.

And for the other g.t.d. 90 minutes or even 2 hours but less starting stack and faster blinds. Max 10/12 minutes.

After that adjust the g.t.d. according..

Also make the names of the tournament,s consistent with there structures.

If turbo10 have exactly these structures the abadabadu has this structure the xyz tournament has thus structure ,makes it easier to find what you want and what you.like..

Let's give thus guy some credit because "I know he is stressed" but he is still in the Fox hole. That means a lot..

I'm not as articulate as most around here...

As a rec Mtt player Evan after 2 hours I have above average stack the 15 minutes blinds and 5k starring chip stack is not enough of an disadvantage for a whole bunch of other people coming in late..

I'm sure!!!! That's why it! Is! Structured!.that way..

Make it 3k or 10/12 minutes blinds..

I've busted at the end of 2/3 hours and I've been chip leader..

I just feel something is off. It's like I'm screwed if I start on time as and I'm screwed if I late..

I really don't know how to articulate it properly.

Once again I truly believe it! Is! Structured that way to!!! Make it easier for people to late reg not disincentivive it..

I'm really trying to be honest. The people that love all this late reg will nit my post and pretend not to know what I'm talking about. Or perhaps I'm not articulating it appropriately..

Haha that's what really tilts me....busting as Chip leader or being chip leader for 2+ hours and then busting before late reg is done. Then I feel compelled to reenter, since I should still capitalize on equity, but then again, I'm so tilted that people are still registering after I had 150bbs an hour ago and already played for that long.

If we go 3k stacks at 10 min levels, I think that would just screw it all up and turn into turbo fest. I'd test out the 3k stacks with 15 min levels, shorter late reg, NO rebuy or addon...at least not in every mtt. If you do rebuy/addon, you just created a turbo with deeper stacks to survive until close to the money, then becomes ****show when real money is on the line. 3k stacks at 12 min levels would work IF you don't skip levels like bovada does. They have 2-3k 12 min levels and still winds up with 11bbs avg stack. Chip leaders should be able to have 50bbs+ deep in an mtt, with a couple around 10-12bbs, and rest should be around 20-25...unless chip stacks are all evened out somehow. At bovada's fts, you have 3-4 at 5-6bbs, 3-4 around 10bbs, and then the two big stacks around 20. That's crazy dumb.

Sound logic...

You definitely aren't articulating it appropriately, for the record. You just sort of right down a bunch of random thoughts, and think you are proving your point.

I'll try to respond to some of the things you say:



1.) You mention a couple times that people who register late should be "disadvantaged" or have a "disincentive to late register"...why is that?

I mean, the disadvantage of late registering is having fewer big blinds than if you decided to register at the beginning, right? That is the disadvantage that the person who late registers is suffering.

2.) When you say:

What does that even prove? That you were chip leader at a point very early in the tournament, and then got knocked out?

I guess your the nit I was talking about...

Read the response to that same post to someone who gets it...

They arent disadvantaged enough.. why do.you think a.c.r structures it that way, so as many people can get in 2 hours late and it's not that much of a biggie..

No, I didn't mean it to prove anything. Just saying how annoying/tilting it is how normally we play 3-4 hours of a normal PS tourney, for example, knocking people out and getting somewhere in an mtt. We play 3 hours of an ACR mtt, not even close to the money, just repeatedly battling people who are able to rebuy. I like to get somewhere in an mtt. The more people I have to go through, the more chances I have to win all ins. I've never enjoyed reentry mtts, and wouldn't like them if I played against tougher competition as a fish. Rebuys, sure...it's a fun, different format that allows me to get a big stack possibly early in first hour and playing a little more loosely. But this mix of being able to gamble, but also having to play tighter to account for the other idiots not caring about reentering is tilting beyond belief. Going from CL of a reentry tourney to busting before reentry just feels "bleh...." like I never even played the tourney and wasted 3 hours of my life. On the opposite end, making it 2 hours past late reg and bubbling an mtt feels way different (to me). Guess I need to weigh which is worse...the dumb 3 hr late reentry or the dumb levels bovada skips and therefore creates a **** show at the end. I'm torn between equity and my sanity of life lololol.

I agree with that. I think this is exactly the point.

What I don't understand is why you think the people that late register should be "disadvantaged".

Edit: Or, why you think the late registers should be "disadvantaged" more than they already are (by getting the same starting stack, but with higher blinds than if they registered at the beginning).

Generally, I agree with this as well. I'm not the biggest fan of unlimited rebuy/re-entries either.

That seems to be a different argument than the late registration time though.

May i ask without sounding rude in anyway.

How many times has someone regged in the last level any 2 random cards and you have won his stack? Im sure on many occasions you have won more chips from these guys. On the other hand yes it is frustrating when you have AA cracked in the last level from any 2 randoms because they can re enter but in the long run you are always going to be plus ev from the any 2 random shover.

It is also the same thing when you are deep in a tournament and someone shoves k2 from sb because you are close to the money and you wake up with QQ or something and lose. Unfortunately this is the game we all love and play. The 3 hour late reg isnt here because we want it necessarily, it is here to offer bigger guarantees to the players.

I find your general prioritization of guarantees over everything else rather weird. I think that's part of why we're having so much difficulty communicating with each other in these threads. Why is having sizable guarantees the most important thing?

Well, on Merge, with the tiny ass fields, we would be like 2 from the money and 10 more people would load up reentries with 5bbs. Then, you are sitting there with 10-15bbs and are stuck in a rough spot for a whole level because these dumb ****s keep rebuying. You either get bad beated or can't call off. Very rarely am I gaining anything. If anything, it ICM ****s me out the ass....especially in the limit games where the chip leader may have 10 big bets with 15 left. It isn't even poker. It really has nothing to do with beats, for me. It's just the annoyance of the tourney not moving along. If you MUST HAVE the 3 hour late reg, at least change it up with various mtts and load up the schedule more. Throw in 3k stacks with 1 hr late reg with a smaller guarantee or something.

Has the site even looked at how much the prizepools increase per hour that late registration is offered? If one hour late reg trims the tourney down by 2-3 hours and we lose 100 in the prizepool, I might be all for it. Doesn't ACR overpay the amount of places anyway, which thereby makes it worse for good players? I don't remember because I'm playing mtts once a week at best anymore.

I remember when the 10k gtd (I think) started later back a few years ago. I was staying up until the wee hours of the morning just to bubble the FT, or the FT would start and have another 1-2 hours of poker and it was already 2am. If this site ever grows and you get 600 people in a $5 donkament, you're going to have an 11 hr mtt.

Also (sorry, thoughts are rambling all over the place), how many actual unique entries do you have in the smaller guaranteeds? If the only reason the guaranteeds are getting bigger is because the avg person buys in 2x, I'd rather have more unique visitors to the site buying in.

1. I would be willing to bet a large amount of money that trimming that late reg from 2 hours to 1 hour ends up decreasing the total tourney length by less than 2-3 hours. I think we can both agree that that's not gonna be true.

2. I agree with you that in order to be successful in the smaller tourneys with a long re-entry period (from a player's point of view), you have to play loose / be able to fire a lot of bullets. I realize that that does not agree with the "beautiful form of poker", where you get one entry and if you bust then you are out...but generally this gives a lot of the amateur/recreational players a chance to play a lot, and be able to re-enter once they lose.

3. I do wonder how focusing on making the total tournament length shorter (in some capacity, whether it is shortening late registration, blind structure, etc) would help/hurt tournament fields. Especially from Monday/Thursday, where most people have to work the next day, and can't commit a ton of hours to playing a poker tournament (especially for a $500 guarantee with a $150 first place prize.

**All at the same time, avoiding making every tournament a "turbo tournament", because people will complain about that as well

Also, as winning_TD implied earlier, there is nothing that winning network can do to make everyone happy. I wonder what is best for the network, as opposed to what is best for the loudest people on 2p2.

Edit: Not that I am calling you the "loudest" bef99, because I do think you make some good points. Personally, I don't play too many MTTs, but I am sick of seeing people complain because structures aren't perfect/late reg lasts too long.

Double edit: Just so I hope I am on the same page as everyone else....when people max late reg for a single starting stack (and usually have 10-12 big blinds) they are often open shoving A2+ and K9+ right?

Am I the only one who thinks that it would be nice to have a few games that did not have re-entry?

I get that re-entry adds to the pool however I feel that re-entry has a different strategy to it and I'll like to play some single entry games. It would also allow me to play a bit higher stakes as well.

Yeh the CEO had a twitch chat a few months ago and he kept telling us that we were wrong about the long late reg being a major problem, and that the most important thing to attract tourney players is large guarantees, citing his long career in internet poker. The things I remember being huge attractions were FUN tournaments.

Think Pokerroom circa 2004. Tourneys like the FIVE DOLLAR FRENZY (crazy fast structure rebuy tourneys) and THE MIDNIGHT OIL (tournament where top finishers also get a ticket to a Sunday Major in addition to cash prizes). And some of you are right about the tournament names, not sure how your marketing team doesn't realize that catchy names that get gamblers juices flowing are key to attracting the right kinds of players.

There is an intriguing tourney structure that Juicy has been running lately. It's called a WILD WEST tourney. Basically a hyper turbo where everyone starts with 500 chips but u can multiple rebuy at anytime. So, lets say the buyin is $1.10 for 500 chips. You can rebuy 10 times instantly if you want to have 5k chips by spending $11. The kicker is that you have to pay rake on each rebuy so it'e not cutting into the sites profits and fits the re-entry train of thought that you seem to like so much, while also appealing to the gamblers that your sites desperately needs

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the entire group of people I play with absolutely refuse to play the 5k stack, 15 minute level, 3 hr late reg games. Bring back the fun and we will come back to the site.

I agree....
I love playing tournaments especially after work(to wind down)..

I live in New york so my options are full flush, bol, a.c.r.

A.c.r. is by far the best but I find myself playing more on my day off when I prefer to play daily..

Some years ago I was stuck on "club wpt"..

Basically you pay 25 a month to play freerolls but I played religiously daily for 2 years..

At 11 pm that had a 500$ tourney that lasted 2.5 hours(just perfect)..

I looked forward to it for 2 years and was pissed when I missed it..

With a.c.r. I'm like sometimes( f...it) I'll play tomorrow..

This is just an honest thought from a rec player..

Structures ARE one of the major components of a tourney for players that determines whether you want to play it and whether it provides the best value for a player. That's why Chainsaw and others are so adament to the WSOP that they changed stacks. Granted, it won't please everyone. To do that, you have a variety. You don't stick with everything the same across the board. You offer a variety of structures, speed, length, and so forth so players can choose.

For the second part, no, you are way off base. Calling/shoving ranges are so whack since Black Friday, that I own myself thinking like that. You have complete whackjobs who shove what they shouldn't, but for the most part, it's tighter. People will fold down to 3-5bbs just to get AA. I'll call a 7bb shove on the bu vs the CO w/ a9 and expect to be flipping or 60/40 most of time. Naw, completely dominated 95% of time. 5-10bbs post BF is like 10-15BBs pre BF. 10-15 post BF is like 15-20bbs (people will raise/fold a ton). I have yet to adjust correctly.

Right on brother...

I would be happy to get 60 minutes on all tournaments..

Even the 1million gtd.. make it 250 or 200k gets with 60 minutes late for 500entry.

I would play once a month and think I had a chance or definanatly play satellites to get in...

With 180,late I don't even try I spend most my time on demand in micro/low or a scheduled tourney with 60/90 late when I could find them.

I don't even think of going higher buy in with 180 late.

Dam, if I could find tournaments with 60,minutes late I would defiantly buy in regularly on the low/med level...and most definitely play satellite for bigger ones..

I currently don't!!!! play any satellite,s... no point to it..

The one and only thing I like about other sites is all the tournament have one hour late so I enjoy playing satellites to the bigger one..

I kinda think I have a chance then. Lol..BUT ITS FUN!!!

Just make all late 60 minutes, lower the g.t.d. and I guarantee you so many more rec players would be playing satellites and buying in 1 level higher than they currently do..

But they won't do that they will sprinkle a couple like that. You can't figure out where they are or my ! Schedule won't allow..

I will say this again back in the days they use to have DEEP STACK TURBO 5k starting stacks but instead of 15 it was 5 min levels.

DEEP STACK TURBO PLEASE!! it gives the 5k chip guys thre 5 k and it cuts the tourney times in half.

I understand about the turbo but...

That is just one particular tournament we are trying to get them to change there mentality on the whole schedule in general..

Let's not get lost in the weeds on one specific type of tournament..

I think in general you would be on the same page with that!!!

If we post about everybody singular specific preferences, we won't get anything done..it will get them confused..

Let's stick to the general principle of the b.s. 120/180 late and everything else will take care of itself..

This post has to get there attention.because it's so true for the average rec player.. if everything was 60 minutes but lower g.t.d. I would definitely be playing satellites to hight tournaments and straight buying in..

If you want to keep catering to the elites then you left me. I didn't leave you.

You will be like cricket compared to baseball or now baseball compared to football..

^^ As an average rec player (I'm assuming that is you sir), I don't know that a $2k or $5k GTD is really all that enticing to them, whatever the late reg is. To the layperson, I'm sure most don't even realize late reg is what it is.

I could ask the 90 people who play poker at the local pool hall this Friday night if they would be interested in a $5k GTD tournament online, and probably 75 of their responses would be "isn't online poker illegal?"

In terms of casual online players, I actually think late reg is lower on the list of things they look at before deciding to deposit. To me, a casual player wants to see bigger GTD's, like $10k and up. The only way to offer that with a reasonable buy-in is to have registration open for a longer period of time.

Does it need to be 3.25 hours every event? Maybe not. But for some of them, I think it's quite necessary at present.

I respectfully disagree....

The average rec player just wants to get a couple of tournaments in..

We have day jobs etc etc..

It's the grinders that are consistently looking at value, g.t d. Etc..

In my social environment many of my friends gamble at casinos. I have cousins adicted to online play poker..

Some years ago after black Friday I introduced them to club wpt. Many loved it and still play. I have also introduced many to a.c.r. and full flush. The majority( I think everyone) no longer plays at a.c.r. ) because it's overwhelmingly too time consuming with the late. Some still play full flush..

People are actually staying at carbon because of the late on a.c.r.

I think it's all relative..

You probably consider yourself a rec player compared to all these nit grinders..

On a couple of these threads people are more articulate.than I in express this..

I am truly a rec player. Do I land on the money often yes! Do I ever truly accumulate enough to want to cash out, rarely!! Do I care, not really. If I could play for "free" that good enough for me. It's a win, lol..

The overwhelmingly people who play poker tournaments live don't even know 2+2 forums exist. They don't nit or micro analyze if the rake is 8percent or 12 percent. They just want to sit down and play.

So on this forum your probably considered a rec player but that truly isn't the case with most..

They just want to spend a couple of hours playing a tournament after work or on a day off. A.c.r. prohibits that. You can go on other forums, here as well and the "many" are saying the same thing.

I also experienced that with myself as well as witness others who "try" to play daily.

I've been doing full.flush more and more because I know I can find a game and "rub a couple off" whether the rake back is this or that doesn't concern the majority of true rec players. If it's a 10 dollars buy in and we cash for over a hundred we are very happy.

Full flush is a very talkative site and the majority say there they actually like a.c.r. but the tournament schedule doesn't really provide for them..

I just wish the tournament,s were all 60 late. I would buy on too larger tournaments, play more and do satellites.

I pretty confident that I'm with the majority of players on that..not the last 10 guys still trying to relive the old days and nit and "this" and."that"

You have to make it more accessible, not more elitest...

Rec players play Mtt. We generally dint play sit n go or cash..

A.c.r. won't change. If they do it will only be a couple of tournaments and why even play satellite to the good ones when there not winnable for us with 180 late..

I'll knock off the last of my bank roll and just go to full flush. At least there tournaments are winnable for a rec player and I know I'll have the time to play a couple..

I truly think a.c.r could be superior but?? I guess I'm investing in baseball and there trying to revive cricket..

I would have to agree that general rec player cares about how many mtts they can play, the variety within that timeframe they are able to play, and length of tournament. I would say GTD would be icing on the cake to them, but i doubt a low buy in rec player would skip over a 200gtd vs a 3k gtd if the lower was the only one available during their timeframe to play. The regs want a variety of buy ins and types, higher guarantees, tons of fish. I think ACR is taking out adding more mtts to the schedule, and plowing it into one mtt to meet guarantees and try to get them bigger. Not sure if their intent is to then add more to the schedule, or just be happy with the same 10 dinky mtts per day and try to boost the gtds to the moon somehow (which won't happen). Not sure about everyone else, but if I'm running like dick in one mtt, I'd rather psychologically start a new mtt from scratch.