Just spit balling ideas to fix the problem of players who late reg and purposely work together to make it into the money.

one idea I have is to change the late reg from ending at a set level but to have it end once half of the field who registered at start of the tourney are eliminated. Example, if 400 players registered before a single hand is dealt once the field hits 200 late reg is over. it would help keep the people who are taking advantage of the system guessing on when exactly to enter.

That would certainly keep them guessing but it would also hurt some honest players who need to know when registration closes for their own scheduling and whatnot. Something needs to get done but i’d say back to the drawing board!

Develope a RSG

Random seat generator

Which is what i think they are working on

RSG would break up the teams

Easiest way would be to pay less.. Get rid of the min cashes.. Nobody want that stuff anyways..

Right now late registration closes automatically if all of the players in a tournament are in the money, even if the last late registration level has not been reached. This doesn't occur very often, but I've seen it.

I suggest closing late registration early if, during the last two level of late reg, 90% of the players left are expected to be in the money.

For example, if the lobby currently shows "Places Paid: 63", late registration would end when n *.90 <= 63, where n is the number of remaining players. In this example, late registration would end when there are 70 or fewer players.

Combine that with re-seating players every time a new table is created during the last level of late registration, and I think most of the problem is solved.

Players would get used to the idea that late registration might end a little early, and plan accordingly. And late registration would still last just as long as it does now for tournaments that do not run into this problem of having so many of the remaining players getting into the money shortly after late registration ends.

Yeah I think the site would love to pay all that overlay. It's already difficult for players to time late reg if they're doing other stuff. You literally have to refresh the lobby tab because it wont do it by itself. It's one of the main causes for so much overlay and so tournaments close to ITM before late reg.

The easiest and fastest solution is to reseat everyone when late registration ends. I would hate to give up a good table, but it would be worth it than having some scummy group of clowns slow the whole LB down. I have joined last minute with them several times now and robo shove ATC and steal the free blinds and antes. One time someone else decided to jump in and ruin my little party, lol.

Changing the structure would not have much effect, some MTTs will still be close to the bubble when late reg closes, whether it is 60 minute or 300 minute late registration. People that enter and want to take the chance, fine. When groups of people work as a team, that is disastrous for the game. A single orbit takes more than a full blind level with those clowns.

i agree. reseat everyone immediately after late reg ends and problem is totally solved

How does that solve the problem (reseating after late reg ends) when the problem exists right before late reg ends? By then they've already accomplished their goal.

Exactly. That's why I suggested having late reg end when half of the starting field has been eliminated, it is to far from the money to make slowing down a table worth it.

The only problem with this, at least on ACR, is that many of the tournaments have very few entrants at the beginning of the tournament. So you might have a $11 3k guaranteed that starts with 30 players. You cant keep registration open until 15 are left.

Well the players that are colluding are obviously signing up right before late reg ends, but the real problem is afterward. They stall and chip dump in order to get into the money. So if you just re-seat tables right after late reg ends, it would solve most of the problem.

And maybe what you are describing is an idication of how bad a problem it really is. What I see the effect of cutting late reg off when half the starting field is eliminated is that you will start seeing more players signing up right at the start of the tournament rather than waiting since they won't have a chance to just squeeze into the money by late regging.

Maybe a better option might be to stop late reg when half of the total field has been eliminated as opposed to how many started the tourney. It would definitely make the tourneys longer but still have the desired effect.

If we take a step back and take a look at what the real problem is that late reg ends to close to the money. Make late reg end farther from the money somehow and the problem goes away.

It solves it 100%. What happens is 7 or 8 tables are playing at a normal pace and one table that is bottom of the LB is colluding to slow their collective clock down and sleaze I to the money.

If you break that table up, aka reseating, then one or two of them on every table means the field collectively is slow, not just one table. They don't chip dump to one player, they all time down and disconnect from the game if it is cutting it close to the hand for hand stage. As I mentioned, one orbit takes much longer than a single bound level.

I think they're worried that smaller reg periods are going to lead to less total runners, then overlays, then smaller guarantees, which will then draw less runners initially, and so forth.

So, how about--for the last hour of late reg--a sorting algorithm that keeps a seat open for a minute or two after someone gets knocked out, then fills that open seat with a late regger. You would probably have to tweak the timing and the number of seats left open, but I think you could get a working system.

Edit: Or do they already do that and is it overwhelmed by the sheer number of late reggers? In which case it has to be some cross between keeping seats open at tables and creating new tables with new and old regs, which seems complicated.

What you are describing here is in my opinion WPNs biggest problem. They put the money ahead of everything, including ethics. Rather than fix the problem they continue to allows cheaters to play on their network and allow honest people who worked hard for their money to be robbed. Any honest, respectful people would either fix things or shut everything down rather than have rule breakers to profit at the expense of others.

If they put the money ahead of everything, why are they not cancelling the MDS? They have been bleeding out money in the overlays the last month and still paying out people. I don't see that as the problem, at all. As a side note, it took their affiliate department months to get back to me with repeated emails on my end, months. That is to send them money. I've waited ten days already for a response to a problem one of my guys are having installing the console. They don't even seem to be concerned with making it possible to deposit.

Anyone that has had the unique amd unfortunate experience of engaging one of their online customer chat reps knows that they are largely useless. I've had issue resolved in no time dealing with winning_td and WPNrep here. I don't think they're responsible for the security issues either. It sure is conceivable that security personnel are just as nonchalant as the customer service and affiliate reps are.

Seems like a simple fix. Since they are also taking advantage of the player timeout why doesn't the timeout value that tournament players begin at some default minimum value instead of the maximum value? It would build up over time when players don't use it.

All these late reg folks are only getting this to work because they are counting on a bunch of them showing up at a table. The minute or so they get to start with adds up when you have 5 or more at a table... but if it is only 10 seconds then likely not so much of an impact.

This way, the late reg folks would really only get their 10 seconds to make a decision and if they are real players then note that you really don't get to tank because you certainly haven't put the time into this tournament to be owed one... and for those disconnect folks... tough luck, you just get anted until you get back in.

So you think because there are overlays the network is not putting money ahead of everything? Trust me, if they weren't benefitting is some way they would cancelled them in a heart beat. This network serves its own interests first which I wouldn't have a problem with if it didn't conflict with ethics.

Look at the overlays wpn has everyday. They need super late reg to hit their guarantees
IF they take away the levels they will have to pay way more in overlays. No chance of that happening

Chilled out on these threads for a few days & I feel so much better! Especially appreciate the efforts by people like a dewd consistently making great tedious posts but for people getting so wrapped up in this like I was I’d recommend taking a 48 hour break. I was enthused when Mason posted that he was taking more an initiative to get involved.

It seems like the guarantees for the upcoming OSS are a little more conservative than recent trends considering its a tournament series. Still, I don’t see how they get close to reaching this GTD’s without fixing the seating issue and banning some very obvious bot/colluders. At the same time, I don’t see them hitting these gtd’s without seriously addressing the bots/collusion/late reg. Not holding my breath for real action other than saving face. This Phil Nagy twitch on Sunday seems important. If he admits they’ve fallen well below the expected standards he stated himself & takes responsibility it’s a real good sign. If it’s more deflection, blame, and not fully admitting he hasn’t lived up to previous statements, therefore letting his loyal players down that would be damning.

I think the late reg opening is overkill & needs to toned down by an hour across all tourneys, I’m cool with previously stated guaranteed being reduced in accordance. That would get me playing a few tourneys anyway & some extra sats for mil instead of just buying in or not playing.

Regarding the late reg seating exploit a sensible solution would be to have tables play short handed by 1 player for the late reg period until a new entrant joins. No 2 players regging successively at the same time should be seated at the same table. Tables can break like normal as players get eliminated but the basic principal should apply. Then consolidate a few tables to fill in the gaps at individual tables across the tournament break and new entrants come in. What’s been so frustrating is this situation has been reported so much, is such a no brained fix for game integrity and should be a snap call for WPN to fix. It’s one of a few prime examples where WPN placing rake profits above game integrity across the board. The inability to fix this simple problem has hurt their rep considerably. If they can’t admit to the snowball effect this has lead to & fix the problem what can/will they fix?

You’d hope WPN would prioritize ethical players over bots but to this point they’ve tried to have their cake & eat it too.

+1000 to everything posted right above

Random seats
Diminishing time banks the later you reg, regenning the longer you play
Late reg ending when people are deeper than 5-10 bbs. Keep your 5 hour late reg but it can't be that hard to figure out what the likely average stack depth is at end of late reg and adjust the structure accordingly.
Better security, banning and confiscating for blatant collusion, make the risk not worth the punishment, im assuming there was 0? risk before. I imagine it has to be the easiest thing to detect and ban ever especially repeat offenders.

yeah after observing some MTT's it seems crazy how big blinds are relative to stack sizes towards end of late reg.