Get rid of the BBJ! I haven't played on WPN in months because the RAKE is too high from BBJ and the Beast. Lets be honest here BBJ is just rake that is taken from every hand and put into one big lottery ticket. I have never received a single dollar from the BBJ despite logging over 100k hands on WPN. Not sure how you could say it isn't rake... The beast takes money out of pots and then gives the vast majority of it to grinders playing 24/7 so all the players that don't play all the time are losing from it so please get rid of these two crappy, gaming killing promotions. Myself and a bunch of my poker buddies won't be playing on your site as long as you continue to have ridiculously high rake. I highly suspect there are a lot of players you could bring to your network if you got rid of these two promotions or at the very least the BBJ.

I agree its really hard to make money from the BBJ tables. Unless you get top 3 spot chances are you're gonna be losing money.

I did an experiment last month. I made a deposit just to test my luck at these tables and hopefully make money from the beast promotion. I played at the smallest limits 10/25c, 8+ tables. I found out that you get 350 points for every 1000 hands played. You are also expect to lose 5-10$ every 1k hands, if you are lucky if you break even that session. I ended May making less than 100$ (including rakeback) + tourney ticket and I literally grind more than 50K+ hands.

IMO its not worth it to grind at these tables. If you must grind at these tables just get to the lowest level where the cash is being paid. It should only take about 300$ rake and youll be rewarded with 80$ and a tour ticket.

The only value these tables have is if you hit the BBJ, other than that you'll find yourself grinding your butt off and profiting nothing.

Paying more rake on carbon poker would yield me more profit than paying into BBJ/Beast.

I'd love to see the BBJ go away but the Beast is the best promo I've ever seen. I get between 80-150% rakeback with the Beast factored in.

I agree on this, especially when it's a satellite to a foreign country event. Some of us actually have jobs and responsibilities and can't easily make such a trip. What they SHOULD do is allow you to unregister and take T$ for this, they seem to have a tournament buck option when you buy into tournaments but for the life of me I can't figure out how one gets them. lol

It's not always a satellite though, the April Beast was a $55 ticket to the 50K guaranteed. That turned out to be really good EV for my Beast drop as I made a deep run in it.

I posted this in the other thread too, but in the last 3 months it has taken ~7500+ hands to get into the Beast leaderboard money (8K to be safely in)... less to get a tournament ticket but no cash payout.

The beast sucks because the beast tables are also BBJ tables and anything you make off the beast is getting eaten away by the money taken away by the BBJ. Down with the BBJ!

If we can't get Beast only tables, why cant we make a compromise. Lets remove the BBJ/Beast rake from split pots.

The other day I played a little NL25 when there weren't any NL50 games open, and when it was folded around to the small blind and they limped into the big blind the pot was $0.23 on the flop. $0.27 of rake in a $0.50 pot loooool. NL50 sucks, but that was ******edly impossible to comprehend. If you can just beat the 3 different rakes you're a goddamn great player.

Plus you probably have some pretty terrible players at your table. Mainly because if you have decent players at the table I believe everyone is probably losing.

How much do you really have to win with that rake to have a breakeven expectation at the tables including rakeback in bb/100?

Lol I have played at 25NL and had this happen to me a few times. It is pretty ridiculous to win a pot and have over 50% of the pot taken away by rake. It wasn't long after noticing this that I stopped playing on WPN because it made me realize how much I was getting raped by the rake there.

The ONLY reason I do NOT play on winning, is because of the BBJ and Beast.

If we have to keep both The Beast and BBJ, can we get some Beast only tables?

The question to ask is, will the top placing players on the beast leaderboard stop playing on WPN if they got rid of the Beast? Assuming they are winning players probably not. Especially if offered perhaps a more lucrative VIP package of some sort? Maybe an ULTRA-MEGA-I PLAY A BUTTLOAD OF HANDS-HUGE tier for them?

The next question to ask would be, how many new players would they ATTRACT/CONVERT from other sites(or players in hibernation), if they got rid of that ALBATROSS? BBJ, who cares really as long as both bbj and non-bbj tables are offered. Some people just like to gamble it up. Let em as far as im concerned.

Cliff notes: Lead the Beast to the slaughter house.

After thinking about it, even with the software update supposedly happening in 2 weeks I still would not play here because of the BBJ. Not only becuse of the BBJ, it's just not fun to play on WPN because of The Beast grinders. They take the fun out of the game. I might play for living as a "get by", but I still like to have fun when I play.

I agree. The new software will attract a few players but once they see how ridiculous the rake is because of the BBJ they won't stick around long. I for one won't be playing on WPN even with the new software as long as the BBJ is still around.

I only play HU was wondering if the rake is the same at these tables as it is at the ring games everyone is complaining about

I don't think so. Believe there is a 4 or more players rule in order for the BBJ/Beast rake to be taken.

I know you're just a representative, and it's good that you're involved in the community here, but still:

Blatant. Lies.


And, to a lesser extent:

This is standard operating procedure in the industry, but it is still misleading to state that the jackpot is at, say, $100,000, when it is actually at $75,000.

i will play here when the rake is fixed. taking half the pot to fund some BS jackpots so you can steal 10% more of that is a joke

Next you'll tell us that not all of our taxes are taxes because some of it is redistributed to other people.

At least with the Beast you have the opportunity to chase the money that's taken from you. Still sucks though

Lets not forget when you get the $55 tournament entry ticket, $5 of it is the entry fee. So they make a tournament pool and for every $55, one person get a ticket, but they also get $5 back.
So, last month (June) 520 tournament entries equals $2600 they are getting back. They basically put you in a tournament you might or might not want to play in to fill it up and hit whatever guarantee they need to meet. I would rather just get a $55 ticket I could use for a tournament of my choosing.

make requirements for the bbj higher, lower the bbj rake

get rid of the beast... god what a bad idea that is.

everyone will be pleased

RE beast: Try implementing your promotions by using the standard rake you are already collecting... like all other casinos.