Joey put a vid on youtube about bot behavior and contacted the CEO with no response.

I played a little on ACR today at the 50PLO8 capped game and found two players from Bulgaria (no city) that started on the exact same date. Using HM2, I found that they had almost identical stats. I contacted support and they said they would investigate but could not respond with results.

Support asked me if I suspected chip dumping or soft playing. I asked, "How could I?" I can't see mucked cards. I also explained that chip dumping wasn't applicable in cash games.

First of all chip dumping is applicable in cash games
Second - Send me the names

Im not going into too much detail but from what he says its not all black and white from someone not responding.

Suspecting foul play you dont need to see their hands you would be able to realise if your being cheated against.

I have been speaking alot with Joey and there is no good throwing accusations without anything to back it up with. If you have a suspicion send me a hand ID and i will and always have done check it. Or many hand id's i have no issues checking them.

I am speechless. Wow. Just wow.

No wonder Joey wants to give up the fight after talking with you.

Every legit PLO reg that plays says the same thing (these are people who have played 10+ million hands over their career) but there isn't much you can do without concrete proof.

I doubt anything happens but at least there is the conversation. It looks like from the other thread there is some pretty obvious BOTing at the lower stakes so hopefully that gets cleared up at a minimum.

Seriously?

People have been complaining about bots etc. for a while on this forum and elsewhere and WPN has been nothing but silent.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...highlight=bots

That thread is just 2 below this one.

ACR deserves the heat. They do nothing because they profit from the rake of all these bots.

They don't care at all about the players.

Many of your posts before this issue came up have made me uneasy in the past.

After this post, nobody should ever read it and play another hand on WPN.

WTF?!?! Your posts hurt your site more than they help. Unreal.

I (only) rake $1-2K/month, but I haven't played a hand on WPN in a year because of your disregard (among other things).

Wowee, this response is exasperatingly inane -- picking it apart would prove a futile exercise, I'm afraid.

Can you accept full HM2 database export?

.

Chip dumping is primarily a SNG and MTT strategy for cheating. Considering the rake, chip dumping in cash games would be fairly idiotic. So, I suppose that it is true that it is applicable. It just doesn't make sense. Thank you for the clarification.

This may be true but it is certainly a lot easier to find out you were colluded against when you can see the mucked hands. This is why we have been begging for the option of seeing mucked cards that is available on every online poker site in history except ACR.

I sent the information to support. They assured me it would be handled. I asked for an email to confirm what actions would be taken and they refused. Both of these players finish in the $500 weekly Beast rake race. I will track them and see if they stay there or go. I will let the forum know in 2 weeks if they are still there or not.

Agreed. I choose to play on Bovada where I cant see usernames and have no ability to use a HUD. I play there because I can trust the site. I can't trust ACR anymore.

So wow i say to you if you suspect any hand send me the ID so i will check and thats a bad thing? There is no winning with you guys.

I said for you to suspect anything you dont need to see mucked cards, if you SUSPECT send me the hand id and i can check. To me this is only a good thing.

Me offering that seems like only a plus EV option for the players but yet here you are turning it into a negative.

Going back to the topic of the thread i offered to check yet you still havent sent me any info regarding these players or your suspicions?

Busting the balls of the only guy who actually cares what is that going to do?

You have a guy that cares trying his best to provide us with good MTT. The guy is basically running quality control security and customers service on the side

The CEO and GM will lie to your face and not give a ****

I feel really bad for this guy when a company gets this much flake your fire the GM and hire a new one

Fire adrianna and give TD some real power to do something

If you fire the GM that does nothing but lie to players and lets things like this go down on her watch

you will make players think you are taking action until you do something that screams we care this is how it is going to be

Look at all the things going on under the currect General manager. The ceo we are stuck with

Adrianna lies and doesnt do her job all these things are going down on her watch for how long?

Delagation phil your failing big time farm it out or hire the one guy who does care already make him GM and let him restore what integrity he can

make winning td the gm already he can still over look and micro manage the mtt

Its time for a new general manager!

There is no winning because we have no confidence in the site. Unless you can allow mucked cards to be seen and acknowledge and address the possibility of bots (instead of ignoring them until a well known pro calls you out), then we will not "win."

The problem (as I see it) is we have different interests. Many on this forum play poker for a living or at least are profitable players. Most consider 95% of poker players to be on the losing spectrum. This means it is hard to win and those that have and can consistently depend on an even and fair playing field to have that chance.

The interest of ACR is to not care if there are bots, collusion, and other forms of cheating because 95% of your clientele are accustomed to losing anyway and will never realize if they were cheated. They expect to lose and therefore are apathetic to the issue.

WE ARE NOT! We want a fair site to play and ACR has continued to break its neck to not see the problems.

Seeing mucked cards - Easy fix. Requested over and over. Never fixed.
Bot detecting software - Easy fix. Requested over and over. Never fixed.

Why would we believe you that you will investigate and fix the problem now. So, we do and you take out the 2 cheaters. They create another account in a family members name and it starts again. Taking 2 cheaters out of the player pool doesn't fix the problem.

Seeing mucked cards - Easy fix. Requested over and over. Never fixed.
Bot detecting software - Easy fix. Requested over and over. Never fixed.

Please define easy fix?

FWIW we do care about everything and everyone but that goes without saying.

They rather give us spin to get in and double or nothing red/black with worse odds than roulette a wheel instead of showing mucked hands.

Mucked hands at showdown is a necessity to prove any networks integrity.

I can't believe in 2018 we have a network that doesn't provide it's users this that constantly hears claims of bots and collusion going on yet they do nothing to fix the issue.

WPN would rather dodge these questions instead of proving to people this isn't going on. You can say the users have to prove it to us but come on now for as many complaints that have been made the players deserve better then that.

I'm sure many complaints are from losing players suspecting stuff but how many more people have to speak up before things actually get looked into?

After seeing Joey's follow up video I'd be afraid of playing mtts on here too.

Other sites have implemented these features.

I'd say what paratrooper is stating is that it's clear, at least based on what you're saying, that something is preventing WPN from implementing these easy fixes. Not too much to ask for when hundreds of thousands of dollars are changing hands daily.

I've followed these threads and your responses aren't really restoring confidence in a poker network that's long had problems and come across as really just ignoring valid concerns and valid solutions to very real problems.


So what is the issue at WPN? Why so defensive? Asking not only for myself, but for thousands of players who just want a site to take security and game integrity seriously not just brush it off and complain about the valid concerns.

Fix the issues or see players leaving in droves to other sites. Because that's exactly what might happen given a prominent and well respected poker pro has called attention to WPN's problems and your responses just add more validity to his statements.

Let's be practical and real here: You are claiming WPN can't easily implement allowing mucked cards to be viewed X amt of time after the hand even though nearly every other site has this feature. What message does that send given the allegations? It sends the message: What is WPN/ACR hiding?

Hopefully hiding nothing but come on now this lack of transparency and lack of a basic feature is raising red flags.

EASY FIX (definition): A small change in the source code of poker client/server applications to remedy a recognized shortcoming -- easily discharged by competent software engineers.

The Winning Poker Network is thoroughly investigating all claims recently brought to our attention through social media channels regarding alleged unfair gameplay practices from certain accounts on Network brands.
Providing a safe gameplay environment is the highest priority for the Winning Poker Network. To that end, WPN provides for player access to their hand histories underlying any suspicion or complaint, making it possible for player reporting of evidence of improper play.
To bolster our security team, WPN will engage additional help, from outside WPN, to coordinate this review, in light of the scope of allegations brought forth on social media this past week.
We invite all players who have any additional information regarding these reportedly suspicious instances, or proof or suspicion of collusion, bot use, or cheating in any form, to email our security review department at gameintegrity@winningpokernetwork.com . Please provide both specific complaints, accompanying hand histories and support for your belief that collusion, cheating, or bot-play has taken place.
We will investigate each report and develop further analysis of player activities. WPN will act on what it may determine, while respecting player privacy concerns among other matters.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...-play-1504210/

I am OP of that thread when I had been confused I had this account and was requested to use this early signup account...

So why now?

I had many on phone discussions with Dave Miller and Supervisor John and was told security would make a call

all those players disappeared and not one dime in refunds

I played the most vs those bots out of the entire site for 3 years and wasted many hours to unfair gameplay

I have many data bases to back up any stats needed and besides it was soooo obv
so ummmm be nice to ever get compensation because at this point I consider wpn negligent in the matter

many many other winning REAL players who played by the rules were affected as well and crickets

logically and by wpn reps own logic

its hard to detect bots so dont act like we can just do that....wpns rep own logic

not one in the history of wpn has someone publicly stated they were issued a refund from unfair gameplay due to a bot

so we are to believe no bots...but then believe and give slack cuz it's hard out here for peeps post

then never issue a refund....hmmmm

not good and deductive reasoning leads anyone with a functioning braincell to believe if nothing has been done maybe motives that benefit one party WPN are being taken into consideration and another party the playerpool is getting the shaft

#longtermWPNunfairgameplyscandal