Yeah wtf you guys. They both very very obviously have fees.

The Beast seems so scummy. Like, "Hey guys let's have a rake race!! But everyone that plays will pay for it themselves and we'll take 10% of it. You know, instead of us paying for the whole thing like every other site does to incentivize people to play more."

It drives smart people away from the site and it kills the fish even quicker. It's a huge scummy cash grab that most people won't even notice. Even people in this thread lol.

Every rake race is paid for by the players...

The thing that makes the Beast scummy is that they used money that was going into the BBJ and reallocated it to the rakerace so that the got to keep the 50k they were taking out of rake money. So they immediately profit an extra 50k per month.

what makes them think they should have a rake race?

let players use a hud, give them some rakeback. that's all they need to do for players to play many tables for many hours. they don't need a rake race

This is incorrect as was mentioned.

Just to reiterate, because its very important to this debate.

What are you talking about? For normal rake races, the poker room fronts the prize money out of their pocket. If they put up 20k in prize money they're doing it based on their analysis that it will generate over 20k in extra rake and they will still profit. Profit from people simply playing more, not taking an extra rake out of the pot like The Beast does. THAT is why it's scummy. The Beast isn't a real rake race. It's players fighting against other players for their Beast rake money and the house getting a 10% cut.

I don't understand why you keep saying they're relocating BBJ money. Unless I'm missing some information somewhere. The BBJ is a separate rake. There's 3 rakes which is why the games suck dick and are -EV for virtually everyone.

Damn, I was thinking of putting 4k on ACR to do the beast next month. Not worth it then?

Do you play 50+ hours a week 12 tabling? If the answer is no, don't bother.

It's absurd to say that players don't pay for the rake races when the money comes out of rake that the players produce.

There is only 2 rakes. The normal rake and the BBJ. The total rake did not increase when they changed from a standard rake race to the Beast. They took some of the money that was feeding the BBJ and RELOCATED it to the Beast.

I didn't start playing 400nl until after the Beast so I don't know if the current BBJ rake there is new or not. It's 50c/hand that sees a flop instead of 25c.



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I'm definitely not arguing that this is a good. But I don't think its particularly scummy on the site's part.

I do agree that BBJ drop entirely tho. It's bad for the games, but again, not scummy.

fmp

I said NORMAL rake races. Every other rake race I've ever seen has a site front its own money for the race. It's an investment. They are putting up money in hopes that it will generate more rake than what they are paying to put on the race. Most of these aren't site-wide races, either. They are through rakeback sites. The Beast has nothing to do with rakeback and is site wide

The Beast is not a normal rake race. They aren't investing in anything. They don't need to analyze the market or have any expertise. They are simply taking money from everybody and saying, "Fight over this." There is no risk for them. It's a complete cash grab at the expense of the players.

Real rake races benefit everybody. The Beast benefits like 10 players and the poker site. The Beast is scummy. The BBJ is just annoying.

Why are some of you guys still crying about this? They have not tried to cover up anything so how can it be scummy? It is real simple, if you don't like the beast or bbj don't play those tables. Feel free to say you think either is a poor promotion but to say that the site is scummy is just plain stupid.

Because obviously people don't understand it. It's like most other cash grabs where the majority are oblivious and the intelligent are not. Plus it's a horrible way to run a site.

You don't need to cover something up for it to be scummy.

If people don't understand how the beast works when the details are clearly there for them to read, then that is their problem not the sites. No one is being taken advantage of with beast so quit crying about it.

Hey ****stain, somebody doesn't need to get taken advantage of for it to be scummy. A lot of people know it's a bad business model but they keep playing there anyway. Just because people accept its scumminess and ******ed business decisions and continue playing there doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed or ridiculed.

The fact is that all of the US-friendly poker sites suck. But sticking our thumbs up our asses does nothing to improve our ****ty situation. We need to make these sites aware that we know they suck or there is no chance they will change. Feedback is a necessary component for improvement.

By continuing to play there you are in fact supporting something that you don't believe in. The best way you can show that you want change is to not give them your business.

When the options are crap, crappier, or crappiest its hard to voice your displeasure by playing elsewhere. WPN is the best option for a lot of players. That doesn't mean we can't voice our complete disgust at promos that blindly funnel money to the top ten nit bots.

If you would have read some of the previous posts I clearly said I have no problem voicing your displeasure of any of the promos or whatever you dislike. I did object to calling the site scummy, implying that they are cheats or some other low life.

The problem is it isn't just a poor promo. It turns the game into an unbeatable game for a lot of players, especially those at NL50 and NL25.

Please don't say start regular tables. You know that's hopeless. It's IMPOSSIBLE to get volume at non Beast tables because they bury them at the bottom. How about WPN reverses the order and we'll see which tables get more action.

I can't argue the beast takes traffic away from regular tables but I have never had to wait very long for someone to come sit with me at a table. Mind you I am a fish.

When you run a site, have clear rules setup to ensure the integrity of your site, and turn an blind eye to those that do not follow those rules so you can fill your coffers, you are more "scummy" than the cheaters. You have created an environment that cultivates cheating so you can profit. That, sir, is a scummy.

Just got an email from ACR. Looks like they are reducing the Beast fee to 25c on 2/4+ (awesome for me). AND they are eliminating the BBJ entirely so at least all of the extra rake is going to the Beast.

Definitely a step in the right direction imo.

Yeah lets make the beast bigger so more idiots 24 table and slow every game down. Terrible. For most players the bbj is a much better deal.

For the bbj you are only "losing" the 10% admin fee in ev. Now there's a very large percentage of players that have absolutely zero shot of recouping any of the jackpot rake.

So they just reduced the rake on 2/4 and you think its a bad thing?

Yes, that's great news. I was commenting on them diverting all the money to the beast.