A lottery is dumb. People should be somewhat suspicious of the sites anyway, and there is more room for manipulation. 12th month in a row that the friends of the owner won the lottery... you don't say.

there is already a lottery involved - it's called the free tournament entry. so you currently have something for both categories of players (regs and recs). Regs are going to want to know what they are grinding for - they are not going to want the higher variance with almost no additional gain that is involved with a lottery.

If you want to help the weaker players, have some way of recyling the unused seats on the MTTs. I was in one recently and there were 7 people who were inactive, and me and this other guy were the only two playing. I had to leave after 10 minutes, so that guy was sitting there by himself with 8 empty seats. I almost never play these MTTs, even though I win one all the time. I wouldn't mind just donating them to a fish somehow. It's just going to waste anyway. Maybe just have WPN throw in some minor benefit to regs who donate their seats (because clearly most seats are unused anyway). The minor benefit could be something related to cashouts, or the store, or whatever. It would be awesome if I could somehow offer it to the first fish that stacks me. That's gotta be every reg's dream - being bumhunted by fish.

Beast promo is for regs. I see no reason to turn it into lottery .We already have jackpot tables for that. But I do agree they should run more promos for casual players.

My complain is payout structure. I don't understand why 1st place gets around $2k more than 2nd place but there is less than $50 difference between 9th and 10th . How is that good for anyone other than the player who always finish 1st ?

the payout structure is a bit backwards... you should want a more noticeable increase where more people can compete for the position. As it stands now, there is a huge DISincentive for people in positions 3 and 4 to play more because they are not going to catch up to 1 & 2, and on a $ per point basis, they are doing much worse than positions 5 & 6 (6.24 cents per point for 3+4 vs 7.03 cents per point for 5+6). You should always have the cents per point go higher as you move up in the standings. I understand you want to reward the highest volume players, but that pay jump for 1+2 is absurd. A chunk of that additional money could be used to make fighting for positions 3-20+ more competitive. Don't you want more people "fighting" through the very last day?

also, not sure why the current cash race jackpot reads $30+K, but if you add the "cash prize" column, it only adds to $22.6K. I assume this is some sort of computer error. But having misleading (lower) reward numbers will also disincentivize people from playing more.

also, if you want a little more "excitement", I think having a more noticeable bump up in rewards every 5-10 spots or so would cause more activity up and down the leaderboard. For positions 30-90, everyone is is "who gives a fook"-land because the payouts are so smooth (those positions all make about 3 cents a point).

There are a lot of different possible way to adjust the Beast. A lottery would be one possibility; it's good that we discuss all possibilities. A lottery, though, certainly wouldn't entail distributing the entire Beast money to random players. It would probably entail taking perhaps 10 or 20 percent of the Beast and distributing that money, which could be promoted in such a way as to bring in new rec players hoping to get lucky.

They were removed. I understand that The Beast is meant for regs, and I'm saying that it's a problem that both of their promotions are geared 100% towards regs/volume grinders. To be clear, since it doesn't hurt the recreational players it's not terrible, I'm just saying it could be improved in a way that would help keep recreational players in the game.

Thing is that you can keep the number of people being paid out exactly the same (or change it to spread it more evenly between top 10ish, IDK I haven't looked into it I've just seen comments here), and the numbers the same, and just use the points as tickets. What I described is more of a raffle than a lottery, but I digress with the thought that any sort of change to give recreational players a chance at winning some of the Beast money is going to be +EV for everyone involved.

I think raffle is the better description. 1st in points has the most "tickets" and best chance to win, and last place has like a .0001% chance to win. And then you could either raffle off every position, or just the top 10, or maybe only just raffle off 1st place. The odds could be so slim that you would only be taking out like 5% equity from whatever place you're raffling away. The whole "anybody can move up in pay" would have to be a great atmosphere for casual players, so you'd think that it would have to make up for the slim lost equity for qtip or whoever else is constantly up towards the top of the leaderboard. It could even boost the payouts significantly if it goes over well.

"Any points give you a shot. The more you play, the better chance you have to win the $3,000+ guaranteed weekly 1st place prize."

Guys tell me how many points I get if I rake $100?
Or how much should I rake to get 5000 points or 10000 points.

My math sucks big time, thanks in advance!

Hmmm. Maybe 300 points ish for raking $100

I could b wrong..

i think taking like 50% of the tourney entries off the Beast and making it a free BBJ would probably attract a lot of micro/small stakes fish. very few people care about the free tourney anyway.

Years of attracting the biggest nits on the internet takes time to reverse. You'd think everyone on the site was on their last $ of the life roll the way these games play.

And +1 to removing the tourney entries. Recs don't care about some tournament in South America they most likely can't leave their real life job and family to go play.

I would rather have the $10,000 in tourney entries pay an additional 100 places, $100 apiece.

I'm struggling to figure out their incentive to keeping the tournament tickets in the prize pool. Surely raking it once and then sending most of that money off to another casino is less profitable than keeping that money on their site with their medium volume grinders?

It seems that nobody really likes having these tickets being awarded, and you'd think they'd eventually change that. One step at a time, though, I suppose.

They take years too long to do everything. Had they got rid of the Beast when Merge was in the process of stripping their network they'd probably have twice or more the traffic they do. Instead, they wait until Merge reintegrates the player pools and essentially squander any opportunity they had of stealing a very large chunk of their traffic. It must be rocket science to run a poker network.

i just opened the client - forgot all about the free Beast tourney. saw that me and this other guy were the only two "active" players at the table, and I logged out (since I had other plans). What does it say about a promotion where you are expected to get a 4.5x stack, and the players still don't care to play? Please WPN - just stop embarrassing yourself with this promo and use it for something that would actually attract more players.

Can anyone give me an idea of how many points per hand they are getting at the stakes they play?

I wouldn't mind the tournies if they rotated the day they ran.

how many days after the end of each Beast pay period do they pay people out?

Beast Payouts have been coming Mondays in the AM for me last few months.

I think the idea is that they are trying to build a name for themselves in South America/Central America which is a market that is not heavily advertised in.

is there still a BBJ on the beast tables? or did they completely remove that, if so i hate the new beast

there is no bbj.

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i think this is a major drawback in the growth of wpn, alot of players have no idea the beast is a completely free rake race now... maybe changing the name will make people look at the new promo rules

IMO they still have plenty of reason to dislike it, just not to the point where they shouldn't play cash just because of it.

It literally gives no incentive to anyone who isn't mass grinding, so there's that. The best system would rewards grinders, sure, but also give everyone a chance at a prize.

I understand that it's "free" but shouldn't it still be used to attract players to the tables? I suppose by making it appeal to multi tablers you can get more games started, but I don't think they're fun.

anyone estimate what place u would finish in the beast playing 10 tables of 25nl 6 max 30 hours a week?

going to depend on some things but probably between 100th and 80th. like, if you're just a standard 22/18 or something and you don't put in the entire 30 hours during peak times it's going to be a pretty lame investment vs the other american sites in terms of hourly. during off peak hours you won't always be able to have 10 games running without mixing higher or lower stakes and/or often tables will be filled with 5 regs and 1 regfish grinding points where you're possibly not even beating the rake.

as a pure 25nl grinder the rewards the Beast offers you to put in all your volume exclusively at WPN vs mixing in the best games on all of the sites available to Americans, it's not even really close imo. being able to play many better tables likely means you'll be able to add more tables as well making your hourly all the better multi-siting