Guys,

I am now back from Panama and i apologise for not being around for the last week or so. I am now back and with some big news which some of you already know.

I did mention last year which was a bit early that i will soon have BIG news concerning the beast. Please find the link below explaining exactly what is going to happen.

https://www.americascardroom.eu/prom...ast-unleashed/


I will answer any questions but it is as simple as this. WPN will be contributing a % to the leaderboard no player will pay anything to this amazing promotion!!!

Good news, finaly a reason to play at WPN.

Great news! Looking forward to coming back to WPN this change should help out every aspect of the network once the word gets out.

Great news! I'll be back on WPN come April

Great news obviously but the biggest deal is the weighted contribution. That is a ****ing phenomenal step forward and really going to be a gamechanger in terms of quality of games

Excellent. I put $500 on there late last year before doing my homework and completely regretted it. I'd been staying away and hoping this Beast rake would get addressed while I contemplated whether to cash out or not. Pleased to know that now I don't have to.

I asked this question in another thread and got no answer. What happens if the rake does not reach 6 cents? For the micro players this could be an issues since the pots are so small.

Then Beast money isn't taken (way it looks to me anyway...might be wrong). The pot needs to get to $1.20. When the amount isn't reached, only the rake is taken.

I wouldn't call this an "issue".

This system is much more like a rake race than previous. Therefore, almost certainly the top of the leaderboard will no longer be packed with 25nl grinders. If someone wishes to place high on the leaderboard, he'll likely need to move up from the micros regardless periodic hands not reaching $1.20.

I think that this is a great change but I think that further changes are needed so the Beast money isn't just distributed to the higher stakes players.

yeah, I remember the .25 and .50 before the beast and it was around 4 tables running

For what reason?

Because there are more than just the high stakes players playing on WPN. Giving the money to one narrow group of players doesn't do much to increase the player pool. I think that most sites these days recognize the importance of also distributing promotional money to everyone and not just high stakes grinders for a healthy ecology. Everyone wants the biggest piece of the pie but what best builds the player pool is actually most important.

Players who were losing money at the tables but making money from the Beast are now going to be doing better at the tables. Now that the Beast money is pure profit, I think that it can be distributed a lot more widely. This shouldn't just be a windfall for certain players.

With the structure of the Beast before only 50%-60% of the players who cashed were receiving a net gain, and some of those that were weren't really because they couldn't use the tourney ticket for whatever reason. So of the ~300 people who cashed, only ~150 were showing any actual net profit and for a portion of the ~150 the profit was negligible.

Now every person who cashes will be turning an immediate profit and if you can't make the Sunday for whatever reason its not a direct -ev hit to you, you're just not maximizing your ev. So, in essence, as long as they keep the amount of places paid, the amount of players who are going to see a direct benefit will virtually double.

I mean, sure, there probably won't be a lot of 10nl and lower people cashing in the rake race but I don't really see that as an issue if you actually stop and think for two seconds what a rake race is and what the goal of a company that's offering one is. The amount of rake 10nl and lower pays (not % in proportion to higher stakes, but actual real $ contribution in rake) is so much lower than 50nl+ that their beef isn't really legit. Simply saying "well yeah, I pay rake too" doesn't mean you should be given something in a rake race. All it should guarantee is that those people have a chance to participate fairly, and they would/do.

Huge win. Less rake and much easier competition. The NL 25 and NL 50 grinders will find the games so much softer since they won't be clogged with beast whores.

You see these are the type of posts I can't stand. The reason you don't see it as an issue is because it doesn't pertain to you. Try looking at it from a micro grinders p.o.v. While I agree it will be tough for lower stakes players to win it doesn't mean there shouldn't be a level playing field. It also means that a micro stakes player is getting less potential rakeback since they won't get any points for pots less than $1.20. And your point about when a pot is less than $1.20 only the rake is taken is just plain dumb, only the rake is taken out of any pot now regardless of pot size.

If I understand how players will be making player points (as opposed to Beast points) correctly, the players who had previously not payed into the Beast will now be making points at a slower rate while they have little chance of profiting from the Beast. For them this change is a net loss. Those players make up a good part of the cash game player pool.

I believe that a healthy cash game is important to the overall well being of an online site. I also believe, though, that a healthy low stakes, rec and casual player pool is important to the health of cash games. Truth be known, poker is a bit of a pyramid scheme and not acknowledging that but instead going along with the myth that a lot of reg players adhere to that it is their rake that is supporting the site only damages the site's ecology in the long run.

Merge has divided their leader boards into different tiers and I think that has worked out very well.

there is no reason to dislike the change unless you were a pure beast reg who's concerned about what the loss rate is going to be if you're forced to move up stakes to keep beast grinding (which almost certainly will be the case)

i mean it's fairly easy to see why ACR made this change from a business perspective: 100 NL up is more or less barren because there's absolutely no reason to play those games. higher rake, you won't beat the 25 NL beastpros in teh beast standings, fewer tables. what's the point. and it's in ACR's best interest obv to have these games be active since they're making very little (comparatively) on all the 25 NL tables

so now you drive action to the higher tables where you can have people consistently doing top 10 or better at the beast without needing to overextend yourself in terms of number of tables played and now are doing it without the added 25 cent rake (win for mid stake players) and you have more tables playing out more rake per hand (win for site) and you drive out the beastpros who've obliterated the lower stake games and no longer have an extra 1 BB/hand rake (win for low stake players). sure there will be fewer tables but at least the quality of the games take a significant step forward

the big (and only as far as i can tell) losers here are the beastpros who can't adequately adapt to the new stakes they'll have to play to remain atop the leaderboard or to the higher number of tables they'll have to play to make up for the gap in beast points. to them i offer the world's smallest violin

I think you nailed it down pretty well.

Well, I don't. It sounds to me like an elaborate rationalization to protect your piece of the pie. The higher stakes cash games have been syphoning money from US sites because the sites haven't been able to replenish the money pool fast enough. That's why some sites have gotten rid or discouraged play at the higher stakes. My concern is for the overall success of WPN, not for the overall success of some players who might get a windfall from this. I'd like to see new depositors' money from the cash games spread throughout the various games rather than it just getting sucked off the top of the cash games.

I hear what you're saying. The way the Beast has been is exactly what you're saying. A first place micro grinder probably contributed 1/3 the rake as a mid stakes grinder, but made much more money in Beast payout. The way they've changed it, the payouts will more closely reflect contribution, which seems the "right" way to go about distribution.

The increase in rake from 25nl to 100nl+ is a huge boost for the site. I'm sure that's what they're after...which is ultimately the health of the site.

The players on the bottom of the pyramid will now be getting less in rakeback with no other benefits from this change. Their money will get sent up the pyramid and off the site in the form of withdrawals.

This is a promotion. A promotion should be used to keep players on the site, not the other way around. Except for the players on the bottom, this change is a boon for most players. But even that end of it leaves room for improvement. I believe that what is best for the site is for the promotional money be distributed, at least in part, in a way that does what promotional money should do, increase the player pool. Too much of this money is simply being sent up the chimney.

Pokersites live off of deposits not rake. Players who play high stakes want everyone to believe that rake is of supreme importance so they can have a voice. In truth though, rake is absolutely meaningless to sites that don't segregate their funds and for the most part just an accounting process for those that do. I've played poker on a number of different sites for quite a few years. I've been lucky enough that I've never even once had to redeposit on any site I have ever played on. I've certainly never deceived myself into believing that I'm of any real benefit to any one of those sites.

So will this change effect rakeback? E.g., it was if you raked 100$, you'd get 27% back. But now if 15$ of that 100$ you raked goes to the beast, are you still getting 27% on 100$ or 27% on 85$.

I laughed really hard that you used these 2 lines

Look, if you think the status quo was helping the long term growth of Wpn then just lol. If you think this hurts the long term growth, then again, lol

Well I laughed even harder at your post. I've stated very clearly that I think that this change in the Beast is a very important improvement. Obviously no longer having to pay a fee is a huge benefit to most players. I've never even remotely stated anything that would hint that I wanted to maintain the status quo. I've only stated that the promotional money could be adjusted in a way to better benefit the player pool and that some of this money should especially go to the micro players who might actually lose from this if the fee taken isn't considered rake.

So I'll just have to give a big LOL to your reading skills. LOL

Cruz,

The site is putting up their own money for this. They view the rake race, as of right now, is the best way to spend that money. It is no longer player money being used for this, it is the sites money. However they want to spend it is up to them. If you would even think for two seconds the goal of this move and a rake race in general then your whole point, as I understand it, is moot. They are choosing to eliminate the previous incarnation of the Beast and use this promo money to hopefully ramp up new deposits from those who were afraid to deposit because of the old Beast. Acting as if this is bad for anybody is ridiculous. It may not be optimal for everybody, but then again, because this is the sites money and not the players, you have zero legitimate beef here.

I mean, I'm not even entirely sure I truly understand your argument here other than micro stakes are unlikely to place in a rake race and that isn't fair. There's also something about the ecology and everyone benefiting is better. Something something rakeback, which I also don't understand.

Maybe if you laid everything out a little better people might be a little more receptive because as of now, it just looks like a micro player is salty because WPN is altering the system and he's still unlikely to benefit from it.