Skillbet suggestion thread

[iBOOBOO]

Lol

[richmhv]

You do have to adapt to the other player. If you just play normal conservative poker that works well in normal play your opponent may jump into a raised pot with AT for example or jump in from the small blind with K6s after a raise and several callers. You toss these hands based on fear of domination or bad position. Your opponent flops big, stacks off for a win and you get killed for folding. On the other hand if your opponent is very conservative, you can safely toss these hands.

[MellowMood]

Maybe you don't have to adapt to the other player, but I certainly do. I think how they are playing vs the ai is just as important to how I play vs him and vs the ai. Obviously there is end game strategy, but I think every hand presents an opportunity to look for an edge against how they are playing. I have a basic strategy, but play a very different style vs certain opponents.

[DaycareInferno]

all you are talking about is reducing or increasing variance. your win/loss is the difference between your score and your opponent's, so obviously making the play that gives you the best average score is best vs. anyone.

[iBOOBOO]

the point still remains though, you have to adapt to certain players if you want to beat them.

[MellowMood]

Originally Posted by DaycareInferno

all you are talking about is reducing or increasing variance. your win/loss is the difference between your score and your opponent's, so obviously making the play that gives you the best average score is best vs. anyone.

The best play can be different vs two opponents with different playing styles, which will change your win/loss.

[knumbnuts4]

Originally Posted by MellowMood

The best play can be different vs two opponents with different playing styles, which will change your win/loss.

this opinion based or mathematically based?

[MellowMood]

haha, silly question. Obv my opinion from experience.

[DaycareInferno]

Originally Posted by iBOOBOO

the point still remains though, you have to adapt to certain players if you want to beat them.

that point is still wrong.

Originally Posted by MellowMood

The best play can be different vs two opponents with different playing styles, which will change your win/loss.

not true.

this is very easily provable. if you want an actual equation, okay:

x - y = z

x = your score
y = your opponent's score
z = your win/loss

this is the formula used in live matches.

a higher value for x will always result in an equally higher value for z nomatter what the value for y is. feel free to plug in all the numbers you like to try and find case where this isn't true.

[MellowMood]

you don't think making adjustments to ensure x is higher than y is a good thing?

[iBOOBOO]

if you have knowledge of your opponents game, then you will understand his tendencies

understanding his tendencies will open up new opportunities to find value regardless of bots

finding value in spots that he misses is adjusting to his game

adjusting to your opponents game = profit

[DaycareInferno]

Originally Posted by MellowMood

you don't think making adjustments to ensure x is higher than y is a good thing?

no. it could be if you were playing in a winner take all format, but you're not. in this format there is no additional value to "winning".

[RonMexico]

For the adjustment people: Please just give 1 example hand of making an adjustment. You can completely make the hand up if you want, even use an extreme case just to make your point.

[MellowMood]

You'll figure it out at some point on your own. glgl

[Noob Hour]

i was wondering why this thread had 8 pages and now i know why

[iBOOBOO]

Originally Posted by Noob Hour

i was wondering why this thread had 8 pages and now i know why

if you go to "my 2+2" at the top left you can go to "edit options" and select "100 post per page" then you will have 2 pages

[richmhv]

Easy example. You have a hand in late position like A5s that you might play or even raise with if first in but not play if there is a raise up front. If your opponent is a tight player, you toss it. If he is loose, you call the raise and play it. Why? If you don't and your opponent does and hits, you will get killed if he wins a stackoff. (You will gain a little if he misses but usually only 3BB.) That will be easy since the bots will go to the felt with one pair hands all the time if you slowplay the monster s bit. Don't believe it, sit some loose opponents and play tight. You'll lose the match more often than not.

[DaycareInferno]

Originally Posted by richmhv

Easy example. You have a hand in late position like A5s that you might play or even raise with if first in but not play if there is a raise up front. If your opponent is a tight player, you toss it. If he is loose, you call the raise and play it. Why? If you don't and your opponent does and hits, you will get killed if he wins a stackoff. (You will gain a little if he misses but usually only 3BB.) That will be easy since the bots will go to the felt with one pair hands all the time if you slowplay the monster s bit. Don't believe it, sit some loose opponents and play tight. You'll lose the match more often than not.

1) losing the match more often than not doesn't mean anything. that is usually the flaw in thinking in any of these adjustment arguments. unless you like winning more than you like money, your goal should be to win as much money as possible, not as often as possible.

2) if you think that playing tight vs. a loose player is bad, then why would you only play loose yourself vs. another loose player? you just said loose beats tight, so why wouldn't you do that to other tight players yourself?

3) each play is either +ev vs. the bots or it isn't. other than in cases where you and your opponent have different sets of ev (due to cushion), making the most +ev play vs. the bots will earn you the most money on average vs. any opponent. that is just a mathematical fact.

[hankwhite69]

Originally Posted by DaycareInferno

1) losing the match more often than not doesn't mean anything. that is usually the flaw in thinking in any of these adjustment arguments. unless you like winning more than you like money, your goal should be to win as much money as possible, not as often as possible.

2) if you think that playing tight vs. a loose player is bad, then why would you only play loose yourself vs. another loose player? you just said loose beats tight, so why wouldn't you do that to other tight players yourself?

3) each play is either +ev vs. the bots or it isn't. other than in cases where you and your opponent have different sets of ev (due to cushion), making the most +ev play vs. the bots will earn you the most money on average vs. any opponent. that is just a mathematical fact.

Honestly dont understand why you would be "teaching" other players the strategy you've learned and adopted thru playing alot and hardwork and observation yourself.

[DaycareInferno]

Originally Posted by hankwhite69

Honestly dont understand why you would be "teaching" other players the strategy you've learned and adopted thru playing alot and hardwork and observation yourself.

i don't really like talking about skillbet strat on forums much since the player pool is so small, but originally it came up because we were talking about the hybrid format. someone said that one drawback would be that you wouldn't be able to adjust to your opponent's play, and my point is that's its pointless to do anyway other than cushion play, which is the aim of the hybrid format to stop. tbh i never expected this would be something that wouldn't already be obvious to most of the people that post here.

edit: ironically i'm a lot happer with the way things are now than i was at the beginning of the conversation.

[TheGreatest]

Like everyone else said, a Skillshop would be the nuts - I think just by looking at it could attract a ton of players.

[knumbnuts4]

Originally Posted by TheGreatest

Like everyone else said, a Skillshop would be the nuts - I think just by looking at it could attract a ton of players.

+1

[knumbnuts4]

Any update on a store or anything?

Also anyway points can be updated throughout the day?

[Renee Revel]

Originally Posted by knumbnuts4

Any update on a store or anything?

Also anyway points can be updated throughout the day?

No update re: Store and no plans to add minute by minute skill points updates as this time.

[Jay67s]

Just a small item. I have noticed that the pot total in the middle of the table does not clear before the next hand is dealt. I don't think it clears until the pre flop action is complete, then it is correct. This does not happen all the time, but i have noticed more than once in each of my challenges that I play.