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Old 11-28-2013, 09:06 AM   #126
cwar
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

The reality is that Trinity Force is so OP right now in terms of cost efficiency and it lines up with what I feel is the ideal Jax style (initiator not assassin). The main reason to go hybrid is to make yourself impossible itemize against in lane, I really see no reason to do this out of the jungle. Jax does incredible well against armor stacking because he has sustained damage and sticks to squishies and will out trade any bruiser / tank later anyways because of his E / ult.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:19 PM   #127
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

TF is a must because of the movementspeed too, makes splitpushing so much easier(Or chasing down people). Just tried Riven jungle not good. Gonna play a bit more shyvana just not sure how to build her.

Also going to play a couple smiteless games and take TP instead. Fits my splitpushingstyle better and I don`t really get into Smitewars in low Elo.

Last edited by NiSash1337; 11-28-2013 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:29 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
Correct on taxing.

Building Jax is pretty interesting, he benefits so massively from health when his ult is up (because of the resistances) and both BOTRK and Trinity Force are amazing on him. I make my decision based on the needs of the team before my first back.

If I believe my team is bad and will need hard carrying I'm going to focus on TF as my first core item over BOTRK because it has much greater sustained damage and general stat value. This also applies if it seems like any of their bruisers has the potential to get really fed (reduces the value of assassination/dueling). TF is definitely ideal if you plan on hard carrying your team or need great sustained damage and want to initiate (mobility to jump back out).

If you start TF your first back you want boots + Spirit Stone (you need the regen if you don't have Vamp Scepter). I will buy Sheen before Phage if I have the gold to complete it otherwise I finish Phage first (most of the time if you have normal clear without multiple successful ganks).

If my team is more on the competent side I'll go for BOTRK for the extra carry erasing potential. Life steal + AS on Jax can just make you so tanky if you approach team fights like an assassin (not jumping in first to initiate). I do this build less often but you must have a Vamp Scepter first back even if you have to skip boots. You really want boots + Vamp though, a good way to save pots to accomplish this is starting E during your leash.

Add tier 2 boots before you think the mid game fights will start, chase is a very important part of your kit it doesn't do at all to be down a level on boots. I find I usually do this after Sheen/Phage.

After TF/BOTRK you want a giant's belt because of it's pure efficiency with your ult. It's the exact right amount of tankiness on Jax. Then you finish either BOTRK or TF, then finish a Randuins/Spirit Visage depending on resistances needed. I'd avoid GA, completely unnecessary on a well played Jax.
Starting knife and pots then? Either tabi or Mr boots depending on opponent comp I assume. I should probably get life steal quints for when I'm jungling, I just bought my first set of runes and opted for MS quints because it works for both my base starting sets for ap and ad.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:57 PM   #129
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

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Originally Posted by NiSash1337 View Post
TF is a must because of the movementspeed too, makes splitpushing so much easier(Or chasing down people). Just tried Riven jungle not good. Gonna play a bit more shyvana just not sure how to build her.

Also going to play a couple smiteless games and take TP instead. Fits my splitpushingstyle better and I don`t really get into Smitewars in low Elo.
Shyv build is pretty much rush Ancient Golem + Tier 1 boots, then get Ninja Tabi into either BOTRK or Randuins/Spirit Visage (heavily prioritize Randuins though because you really want to tower dive as Shyv and armor reduces turret damage).

Basically Shyv is pretty simple the big decision is when/if to build BOTRK. My standard build would be AG->Ninja Tabi->Randuins->Kindle Gem->BOTRK->Spirit Visage->Atmas then replace AG with Warmogs last.

I'll occasionally replace SV or Randuins with Sun Fire, Thornmail if their ADC/ADs are prioritizing me, or Locket if I really trust my team and there's a lot of AP.

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Starting knife and pots then? Either tabi or Mr boots depending on opponent comp I assume. I should probably get life steal quints for when I'm jungling, I just bought my first set of runes and opted for MS quints because it works for both my base starting sets for ap and ad.
I do start knife pots but I could be convinced of a Doran's start I just haven't had the time to test it. You could also consider a Longsword + 3 pot start into Vamp to get your sustain and get ahead by avoiding machete. I don't prioritize it too heavily though because Spirit Stone is so good on you and I typically like long clears as Jax (enabled by his E) to get to lvl 6 really fast where your ult passive kicks in and really helps your clear speed by a huge amount.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:01 PM   #130
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

For tanky jungles what masteries are you guys using? I'm assuming the obvious 9/21 but where are you putting your points in the offense tree?
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:22 AM   #131
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

Haven't really played much this patch but 9 in offensive just seems so bad in general. Movespeed, buff duration, more health from pots, improved recall, mp5 all seem better than a tiny damage increase early game. I feel like 0/21/9 > 9/21 for tanky champs at least. 9/21 was good last season for the %pen but 9 in mastery gets you so little now.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:47 AM   #132
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

I've been feeling like 9/21 can be really good for laners who have a tough time in lane, Preservation (the huge health regen mastery), the 4% AOE damage reduction for a mid laner, the 5 armor / 2.5 MR for each nearby opponent is insane on some champs (cough Shyv, cough).

If you're confident you can get off the ground though I still think there's some really appealing stuff in offense for late game for carry champs.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:22 AM   #133
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

In general I think 21 in defense is a must on most tanks, in lane or in the jungle. With just 9 in defense you miss out on all sorts of flat armor, magic resistance, and perseverance which seems really strong. 9 in offense provides a little early game boost, but I think 9 in utility is better if you can make use of it. The big change is 21 in offense no longer provides much early for those that don't build AD or AP. You have to go through the %bonus AD and %AP scaling tier to get to the % pen and % dmg.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:31 AM   #134
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

So what do you guys do when you try to steal the opponent's red or blue early in the game?

I usually start red as Mundo when I jungle, go smiteless red >> golems >> wraiths. Would you then go Wolves to get Lv 3 then try to run to their red assuming they are likely to start blue with most champs?

When you try to steal, do you go straight to the brush and hide there until you can try to smite steal, or do you throw a ward in there then wait on the opposite side?
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:01 AM   #135
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

Well you can`t do all those camps and then expect to be in time to steal their red/blue. If their jungler(or mid is smart) he puts a ward down at ~1.38 at the buff he isn``t doing and then walks to the one he is. That way he will see you coming. Usually I would walk to the bush then either wait or rush it(Most likely rush it). If you steal read you attack it and then walk to the bush that is behind the red and do it there.

I`ve stopped doing at all, my edge feels to big to try cheesy things like that(Although rushing it is still ok)
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:47 PM   #136
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimmer4141 View Post
So what do you guys do when you try to steal the opponent's red or blue early in the game?

I usually start red as Mundo when I jungle, go smiteless red >> golems >> wraiths. Would you then go Wolves to get Lv 3 then try to run to their red assuming they are likely to start blue with most champs?

When you try to steal, do you go straight to the brush and hide there until you can try to smite steal, or do you throw a ward in there then wait on the opposite side?
If you're going to steal their red(or their blue) you need to get a ward down on it before you do your first buff. Smite your first buff and once the camp is done go to their buff. You'll have vision and depending on who you're playing/how long they take to get there you can plan accordingly. Sometimes you can just kill them and take red, sometimes it just takes a smite. You definitely need to be doing this level 2 though. As nisash said you definitely won't have time to get level 3 and THEN steal their buff unless they're ganking level 2 or w/e. Also if you're NOT stealing their buff and just doing your usual routine to get level 3, do your red, smite red, then go straight to blue, your smite will be back up for that, then go to wolves for lvl 3; not the route you listed.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:18 PM   #137
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimmer4141 View Post
So what do you guys do when you try to steal the opponent's red or blue early in the game?

I usually start red as Mundo when I jungle, go smiteless red >> golems >> wraiths. Would you then go Wolves to get Lv 3 then try to run to their red assuming they are likely to start blue with most champs?

When you try to steal, do you go straight to the brush and hide there until you can try to smite steal, or do you throw a ward in there then wait on the opposite side?
theres not much need to go smiteless with the lowered CD on smite. Only reason you should is if you plan on going to another buff immediately.

generally if i plan on stealing a buff its because i invaded and took it first. if not, you can probably get the buff they didnt start at lower elos pretty efficiently but generally at high silver + its gonna be too risky.

once you do a camp after your first buff, you shouldnt really ever try to get theirs unless their jungler shows in a lane with one buff on the opposite side of the map.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:30 AM   #138
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

Playing jung a little more, def like being more in control and aware of everything on the map rather than just focusing on my lane.

So what do you guys do when you face an enemy team that goes 2-1-2 with no jungler? I feel like it's a tough spot because there is a ton of free farm out there for you and I try to grab every buff I can, especially because in unranked they rarely take buffs and just go to lane.

The problem comes when I end up with a top lane that thinks I should be spending 80% of my time tending to their lane mismatch. I don't really know how to approach in that spot. Traditional gank routes will often leave me in a 2v1, especially as my normal jung Mundo who doesn't really have a great way to get in, spam a fair amount of damage, then get out (esp pre 6). I feel like it's more beneficial for the team to let me farm as much as I can while top lane just sucks it up and accepts that his matchup sucks and just stays under tower while trying to pick up scrap cs, rather than try to force a 2v2 engage not under our tower.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:39 AM   #139
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

You have to do what YOU feel will increase your chances of winning the game. If that means ignoring your top lane (because let's face it, ganking for someone who is getting destroyed in their lane is hard...often times you won't be able to get the kill and you'll probably both die if you get counterganked), then so be it. You can't win everyone's lane for them.

There is always a "best play at the moment". Once you figure out what you think it is, do it, even if your teammates don't see it or understand it.
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:45 AM   #140
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

I just didn't jungle in pre-ranked.
didn't see the point of forcing a jungler on someone who likely can't 1v2 and will end up feeding
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:07 PM   #141
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

Tell your top laner to farm under tower and survive, eventually he will outlevel them due to solo vs duo xp, and you can gank for him if he doesn't die and is lvl 6 and they are lvl 5. You should also be lvl 6 before them with all the buffs/farm, and you guys should dunk them with 2 ults to 0. If he dies a lot and/or whines, mute him. You can also take free dragons all day if you are playing a champ that can solo drag relatively early on like nasus, fiddles, etc.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:16 PM   #142
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Muting and ignoring whiney top laners who are losing their lanes is free elo
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:18 PM   #143
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

just do whatever you feel is best and if anyone has a problem with it, mute em

you cant please anyone as a jungler unless you carry, youre gonna have games where all 3 lanes get **** on and simultaneously blame you. its part of the job
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:45 PM   #144
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

i was 3/0/2 in a game before and had secured 2 dragons when my top laner started bitching at me for not ganking

yeah bro ive literally just been afk in base the whole time. havent done anything productive anywhere else.

by the time the game ended, kills were even but we had 3 dragons cause i was on top of it. someone on my team wondered why we were winning teamfights so easily.

durrrrr idk bro!
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:19 PM   #145
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

its really shocking to me at how little people seem to understand the game even at gold.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:33 PM   #146
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

"i'm losing lane" ---> "why?" ---> "must not be my fault, since i am awesome" ---> noob jungler no ganks / lag / gg counterpicked / etc

i think one of the reasons lol is so popular is because the variance of solo q allows you to always blame your failures on someone else, which is an ego-protecting mechanism. with sc2 or a fighting game if you lose it's more like 'i suck'.
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:15 AM   #147
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

nah with sc2 it's cause toss op
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:03 AM   #148
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

Yeah, people who don't understand the team concept def tilt me to no end too. Esp as a jungler, your job is to do what is most productive for the team, not to make sure everybody on your team wins their lane.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:42 AM   #149
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

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nah with sc2 it's cause toss op
mules tho
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:20 AM   #150
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Re: Welcome to the Jungle!

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Yeah, people who don't understand the team concept def tilt me to no end too. Esp as a jungler, your job is to do what is most productive for the team, not to make sure everybody on your team wins their lane.
This.

What people also fail to understand: If mid lane goes 0-3 in the first 12 minutes, yes, I might gank to shut down the enemy and get some extra gold. However, usually its most effective to help ONE lane snowball real hard (bot works best). Just babysit the lane and feed them kills. Side effect is that the other team probably rages pretty hard vs. their bot lane players.
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