**** dude that makes so much sense lol. never thought of it that way either. even though i know most counter junglign happens at red funny how things don't click like that till someone tells you.

Yup. I even (or especially) start red as fiddlesticks.

Depends what side you're on.

Usually its better on blue side. I will ward the invade route typically ( on fiddle ) and start blue anyway if i'm purp side.

starting red on blue side usu. gives you a better leash since you have bot lane to help

Ya I almost always start on whatever buff is nearest bot lane, and make sure to pay attention to where their leashers come from.

If I'm blue side, as Trundle (there aren't any other junglers, imo), I usually go from my red to theirs if I got a good smiteless. At my elo/league (Gold, hopefully Platinum soon) this is almost always a positive play.

-No one wards top side red invade.
-Some junglers start blue, and don't inspect the red brush after aggroing red
-Some junglers, if in the brush will be low health, and possibly panic and smite early creating a very good situation for you.

If you get the smite, you out level 3 to 2, have red buff and they don't, and have a good chance at first blood. If successful this gives you double buff, gold and just destroys their jungler's early game pressure.

Then you can give your blue out or keep it for a faster level 6. (Correct play most of the time, I believe)

At the worst, if you don't fail at flashing away, you are down a flash but you've dragged top and/or mid away from lane, and got their jungle low enough that your lanes can farm/lane with little pressure for that important early lane advantage.

Before employing this strategy, be confident you can out-duel the other jungler...

any fellow shaco players around here? I've noticed a lot of pros are rushing ravenous on him, is this standard now? How are you guys building him? I like to get madreds and then go into statikshiv/bork and then maybe an IE.

let me hear u say that after u're just treading along in the jungle when you suddenly find yourself with a giant insect leaping on top of you out of nowhere

your advice seems super solid, def trying that **** out next jungle game

Has anyone tried Olaf jungle since the rework? I'm very intrigued.

Any Cho'Gath junglers out there?

I find him very useful in the early game but I'm never sure how to build him so that he's useful in the late stages.

In teamfights his Ulti is among the most useless in the game because it doesn't do a ton of damage and has almost no range. I guess I prob have to do a better job of prioritizing AP but I'm not exactly sure what build to look at to do that.

apparantly it's a thing in korea

It was a thing before, also.
Season 2 ldo

He is a bad jungler imo, he doesn`t have a gapcloser(To gank lanes) and his kit isn`t really useful. I`m not good at the game but for me he seemed quite useless lategame.

Pretty sure people were complaining about cho's lack of carrying ability in a diff. thread recently. I think cho can go well in aoeish comps. If you land the q-w on 2-3 in a teamfight it will decimate them. In situations like that I"m more likely to just go w/ amumu/sej/zac though I would think.

Is shyvana all the sudden good or something? Been seeing an increase in her being picked and noticed some pros banning her yday on stream.

I think my biggest complaint about Cho is his lack of a range closer combined with an extremely low range on his Ulti.

I guess you just have to use his Ulti earlier in fights where you know you can land it, but you rarely have the option to finish someone off with it.

yeah I wouldn't worry about last hitting champs with it in team fights, just worry about getting your stacks up on minions before/in between teamfights.

I'm pretty sure Cho was played out of the jungle only because tankiness was so OP in season 2. He's still good and viable but I think he's not ideal in solo queue IMO and some other champs can accomplish similar things to him better right now so he's rarely seen in competitive play (from jungle).

Oddone's been doing pretty well with him

Shyvanna is a really fast clearer. Maybe a bit flavor of the month but I think we'll see quite a bit of her and other fast clearers when the changes are implemented.

Much stronger toplane, she needs a couple tank items to really do work and the lack of cc isn't as big an issue when she's in split push role (something a jungler won't have the gold to be effective at)

She's much stronger when paired with Orianna or Lulu as well to make her ult devastating combo, she's very hard to peel off

yeah had a shyv top earlier and he had 2 towers within no time, I was bot and we were still in laning phase.

she got buffed, shes the best jungler atm

man that start red then go to opp red, smite steal and kill them plan is sooo good, such an easy first blood

this basically got me to gold

That and getting carried amirite?

BURN