Pretty sure kha is basically dead after the Nerf on him. Warwick is just so beast though. Kha just blows up carries. He's a tough champ IMO. He's too squishy for the new jungle too.

Kha is far from dead. Still seeing 5% play and 48% winrate at higher ELOs. If he's coming over from Zac he's moving to a champion that's stronger in the meta. Zac is comparatively at .6% play and 44% winrate in the jungle.

Nightblue has Kha as a 2nd tier jungler fwiw. He has Lee, Jarvan and Nidalee 1st tier and then something like Pantheon, Wukong, Vi, Kha'Zix, Rengar 2nd tier iirc.

yeah sustaining the jungle is key early i think. i am currently rushing tiamat and getting the pink jungle thingy... trailblazer?

im doing better, getting games where i go like 7/7 is now normal... so big improvement, but far from ranked ready

also, i double jumped... i killed someone and jumped out spamming e, and got another assist and jumped again mid air... is that supposed to happen?

Putting Rengar as 2nd tier jungler, bitch please.

Warwick/Kha are garbage, even if you are super strong on WW I don`t think you can have more than 60% winrate on him anymore. On other champions you can still stomp.

There is nothing that WW can do better than Rengar. Rengar early lvl ganks are stronger and lvl 6 and beyond as well.

im pretty sure face of the mountain is elite on every jungle tank. Its easily better than warmogs. FOTM costs 300 less gold and gives 300 less health but also has the shield which will be easily 300+ and usually 350+ since you are probably going to also have randuins on top of the cinderhulk, so similar "health," except you can cast it on allies which is much more utility, and it obv does damage. Plus, 10% CDR, and the execute passive helps push lanes after ganks and gives free gold.

Not really about the health on Warmogs, Warmogs gives objective control. It let's you start barons and then regen the health and do it again, or lets you tank skillshots vs heavypoke comps. That being said Warmogs is probably a bad soloqitem and stronger in competitive. There is really way too much HP items a jungler can get right now and there is just no space for another one.

Right now you got jungle item that gives health, then you can get righteosglory for gapclosing, locket for aura and then you really need tankystats.

I have always thought Warmog's is a super overrated item in SoloQ. To the point where I don't even think it's necessary on Mundo, who is like the champ that Warmog's is tailor made for.

Like you said, Warmog's is best used in situations with tense objective control or sieging, which rarely happens in Silver SoloQ.

tried buying facebook moutain instead of warmogs on sejuani works wonders so far, the ability to give an ally a 400 health shield is incredibly strong

Zuckerberg really expanding his empire.

just played couple games after several months off, jungle camps seem super tough now. whats the current meta for jungle routes to start?

double golems with leash and smite on big golem ~> ???

Paging Karak and or any junglers. Karak recommended me to start with Wukong and its been a very good recommendation, my play is by no means superb (just start playing ranked and I am silver IV) but I can tell my skills have improved vastly to the point where I am able to focus less on the mechanics of farming and more on things like vision, timers, overall map awareness. I've surprised myself even some times with well timed counter ganks and counter jungling.

I've read back through the thread but a lot of it is older meta so I am less confident it is still valid.

Wards:
- I am usually starting yellow trinket and after first three camps I will drop a ward in a river bush before backing. I am then immediately changing to red trinket on this first back. Good or bad?
- Best spots for pink wards?

Counter jungling:
- How to deal with it in general? I find I have gotten crushed in some games, particularly vs Udyr. Shack and Nunu have invaded me lots but overall it seems what I have to do is rely on some lanes to come help when I ping, as I'm either low and running or losing a 1v1.
- When should I be doing it? Should I ever do it with Wu, or is he just not suited for it as well?

Matchups:
- kind of ties in with counter jg but what is considered a bad matchup for Wu?

In general my build path is super standard. At my ELO I see a lot of dual or triple AD comps so after warriors jungle item and a brutalizer, I'll get t1 boots and then typically have been building frozen heart for 40cdr, lots of armor and the mana. Should I just be succombing to the cinderhulk era and be buying that instead? Final two items are usually a mix of banshees, tf, hydra, sunfire or randuins depending on opposing comp.

I've mained Wu last Season, so guess I'm qualified to answer.

Wards:

Yeah I start yellow trinket and drop it wherever I feel like it's needed. If Top is pushing and a winning lane I drop it there and go base, if mid is winning and pushing I drop it there.

Pinkwards, depend on your side and on the lanematchups. Standard spots are usually just the single river bushes. I like to put it on the opposite side of Raptorcamp. Just in case they smite it, they will be alarmed about it.

If Top is a really good matchup and sucks warding himself I just drop it to one of his bushes.

Counter jungling:

Just let the camps go most of the time, they really are not worth as much as they used to and you outscale all junglers that invade in terms of teamfighting. You can fight a Nunu 1v1. If you feel like he is going to invade just go to his side of the map and take his stuff(Warding is really important, if you see him go to your jungle you go into his). Don't counterjungle with WU you lose most 1v1s early and you really don't want to use your ulti, also your goal is to outscale and not to deny the other jungler.

Matchups:

Lee is probably bad as when he invades you he can E and make you visible. But then again you outscale Lee and most Lee players suck. Sejuani is bad as she just sits on you and slows you all day. Most matchups are like w/e you scale well, some other junglers scale as well or better. Jungle "matchups" are highly overrated anyways.

I dislike FH, CDR isn't bad but then again you really scale well of HP and usually you want a thornmail rather than the FH. I don't build Sunfire often, it has some synergy with WU,but so do other items. In the end I don't think it matters much and it's always situational.

What matters the most on WU are your junglemovements, I like to mimic the opponents junglers moves and just countergank his ganks. In 3v3 you win almost every time as they usually pile on one person to give you an easy 3 man ulti. Sitting in a bush bot waiting for the opponent jungler is freeelo. Obviously you have to be good at anticipating his junglepathing and not sit bot when he plans to go Mid/Top.

Getting early distortion for your boots is really good as a W Flash E let's you close a lot of distance unseen.

I'm no expert but I think you start double Golems/Toad and smite it for the buff (most people start botside to get a better leash), then clear buff and the 3rd jungle camp on your side. Depending on your champ you might have to recall after that to buy the jungle item upgrade and nothing else (which kinda sucks) or you can clear crab or the first camp on your other jungle side which would be better.

I don't like Wu jungle, he needs too much gold, if you don't get easy ganks early you're behind the whole game he's so much better as a solo laner when you can build hydra first item

Good points Nisash, thanks.

i see, thanks. guess no more quick lvl 3 ganks huh? camps seem to leave you pretty beat up with only 2 pots.

Plenty of champs can lvl 3 double buff gank. It's just often more optimal to full clear then back, especially in the current meta of tank jungles who often have lackluster lvl 3 ganks, and a failed lvl 3 gank sets you way behind a 5-6 camp clear. However if you are a decent early ganker then a lvl 3 gank top against an enemy running smite tp is a free kill every time. Golems->red->blue->gank or gromp->blue->red gank both are easily doable and you should have near full health. Make sure to kite between AAs and use cc abilities to interrupt monster AAs for higher health clears.

For higher health full clearsi usually prefer going smite golems->birds->smite red while using no pots (unless lvl 3 ganking top). Smiting red gives back a good amount of hp. Also don't forget to fit in crab into your path, as it gives s small amount of health back as well. Most champs should have no problem doing full clears. Wu runs into problems because he is almost unique afaik in that he has no sustain/shield/free armorvor real AoE so he takes huge damage on 1st clear

Gbebe have you tried Warwick at all? I think vi/fiddlegod/ww are all better than wu IMO.

In what area does WW beat WU? Outside of 1v1ing there is nothing WW does better than WU.

Same goes for Fiddle, they both have a really strong ulti but WU is much more versatile and can't really be caught offguard(a fiddle standing around and not suprising people with an ulti is just helpless)

WW is really bad now imo. Horribly slow clears, sucks with cinderhulk, devourer is so weak, awful ganks til 6 and his ult got heavily nerfed too.

Give Xin a try imo if you want an off meta jungle like wu. Weaker team fights due to no ult but very strong lvl 3 and early ganks in general and sustain from w. Can go devourer or cinder and snow balls really hard imo

Yeah Xin is one I bought a few weeks ago that seems like a similar playstyle to Wu, and I have played against some Xin's that have just been insane. I will give him a try sometime.

Sorry but Wu and Xin literally have nothing in common.

Xin likes to invade and play aggressive earlier, he makes ganks happen. WU is more farming and countergank oriented hoping to scale and teamfight. Xin sucks super badly in teamfights.

I didn't realize ww ult got nerfed.

I don't think its fair to label fiddle like that. He has great banks at 4 (full health and dub buffs). I do like wu a lot just haven't used him much lately tbh.

Thoughts on Ranger's Cinderhulk Wu? The Stalker's Warrior start seems greedy and his weak and slow early clears make it so much less useful than say Rek'Sai. Unless you're getting easy safe ganks due to the lane matchups I think it probably sets you behind.

Wu isn't in my top five jungle picks, but I do like to play him in solo lanes so want to have a plan so I can flex there if necessary.