they need to buff the gold a little but i think overall teh changes are ok

Junglers that can go devourer scale well, everyone else is hurting from the gold.

ive been spamming udyr on my smurf

so strong

And they would be hurting from gold if their item wasn't like 1.5k above stat value so when they nerf it to reality they'll be hurting too

They made it overly complex when outside of proplay all 4 items got reasonably equal play a dozen junglers were viable and the best ones weren't the pro ones anyway

i mean it's pre-season. they'll make significant changes. i think we'll for sure see a bump in jungler gold.

"end game fantasy"

Their buzzword this year is "Strategic Diversity". From watching Riot's videos, it sounds like they want to make the jungle "unsolved", so there's no clearly best way to jungle. I'm not really sure if it's going to happen though, I feel like in a few weeks there will be a community consensus on what to get on each champ.. I already saw OddOne rage at a Warwick for buying Ranger's on stream today.

I feel like rangers is so good theres amost no reason to ever take anything else, unless you are nunu and counterjungling the entire time. Even on ww, where the onhit from skirmishers is gr8, going rangers still massively speeds up your clears and subsequently your gold. WW clears so slow and if you rely on skirmishers you can't even use smite because you need it up for fights. Skirmishers is still awesome damage though so idk and definitely better mid and late game where you aren't clearing camps.

Same with devourer, its just so good on everyone. Ran jungle GP and got it over warrior, had around ~90 stacks lategame which is 2x the damage i would have on warrior, plus an additional 40 damage per hit, plus 50% AS.

PBE Nerf
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/11...be-update.html

Ranger's Trailblazer

• No longer reduces the cooldown of Smite by 15 seconds.

Weak, also saw they had nerf on pbe for devourer on hit dmg from 40 to 25.

"hey guys, jungles already weak as ****, lets make it weaker".

^

Just stupid. I hate jungling right now.

Tried vi last night, my bot lane refused to leash cuz they wanted to "get first blood" by hiding in bot bush.

Let's just say that first clear was rough, on top of that later I accidentally bought stalkers instead of rangers......

They nerfed Skirmisher's too. Skirmishers/Devourer Warwick was OP, but I think they could've adjusted Warwick's ult rather than give a lot of other junglers unnecessary nerfs. The machete upgrades seem pretty meh now:

Machete 400g
30 magic dmg on hit to monsters
1.4 hp5 while in combat with monsters
.6 mp5 while in combat with monsters

Ranger's Upgrade 350g
15 magic dmg on hit to monsters
.6 hp5 while in combat with monsters
.4 mp5 while in combat with monsters
50% aoe/1.5s stun smite/restore missing health/mana

The health regen and mana regen on machete are each worth less than 60g at level one, and declining as it doesn't scale. The 30 magic damage is worth around 1100g vs monsters so the upgraded machete is mandatory on most junglers, but the end result is junglers are forced to spend their first 750g on stats that don't help them vs other champions at all. There's a huge powerspike when you complete the enchantment since it essentially returns the money spent on machete into combat stats, but it essentially brings you from way behind to only a little behind and then you fall further behind the rest of the game.

If junglers are going to be impactful at any point in the game, they would need higher gold throughout the game.

At least with the old jungle items you could pick up some armor or attack damage before hitting 2250 gold.

I don't get what you are saying with golem/frog smite start, it seems if you aren't a sustain jungler then smiting the frog means you can't even do the buff. Like I tried it with wukong and did golem smited and then red buff beat the **** out of me.

its just gonna be warwick at this point in the jungle.

Smiting golem means every X hit (w/e it is) stuns the target which means you take a ton less damage from the big monster in a camp. If you get a leash on golems you should go into red buff with almost 100% health and the buff, as opposed to starting red and having no buff and taking a ton more damage on both it and the rest of the jungle (since the rocks buff will persist for a few camps). Smiting frog on start makes you jungle faster thanks to the dot and is better for sustain junglers who don't care how much damage they take but want a faster clear.

Wukong is terrible in general in the new jungle because he has no sustain, takes a ****load of damage due to no damage reduction or innate tankyness, and has no real AOE. So I don't really think it matters where you start on him. Probably need to do rocks->red->birds->recall for machete upgrade + pots.

Wukong just isnt viable in current jungle.
You cannot, no matter what start you do, do 3 camps or 2 buff 1 camp, on wukong without having to back.

nah with wukong, u have to do umm frog, blue to red. i think u can clear that way but still have to back. the other is a lil harder but still can clear and still have to back. wukong basically sucks balls in the new jungle. someone told me to try AS rather than AD. maybe i will give it a go.

This cant be true. I haven`t played WU in the new jungle but him being my most played champ I for sure can think of one jungleroute. Start E and formerly golems and smite it. The extra attackspeed you get from e should synergize really well with the buff from Golems. Take W second got to red and watch the counter for your stun so you dont accidentally use your W when you stun a monster. Obv use W to tank the monsters.

edit:

Wait languagebarrier, do you mean you can`t do 3 camps without having to back before? Or 4 without having to back?

Makes sense, I used to do w second before the changes some but went away from it. I'll try it again but yea he's weaker for her

I was in the not believing camp and just did Krugs->Red->Blue->Wolves->Krugs->Chickens without any problem on Wukong.

Then did Krugs->Red->Gromp->Blue->Wolves->Krugs which was harder since went OOM fighting Blue.

I shouldn't say without any problem, I definitely got dangerously low and needed my first potion on red and my second potion latear in the clear. I was running attack damage marks, armor seals, and attack speed quints along with 9/21/0 including the 50 HP shield. Skill order E->W->Q.

Attackspeed is a **** stat on wukong and you wouldn`t want to run that and I`m sure you don`t need to when you get a decent leash

Just played wukong, got executed twice once at lvl 9 and once at lvl 3. I couldve avoided both and I didn`t let my w soak up enough dmg at lvl 3(I would`dve been 4 afterwards). It`s def manageable.

But a huge PLUS is that the jungle item gives 10 armorpen. I`ts so ridiculously strong in combination with your ulti. I just destroyed the opponent ADC every teamfight.

Like I said I missplayed. The creep had 5 hp tho. If you run attackspeed on WU jungle then paly something else it`s just really really bad. Besides it was my fifth or 6th camp. I started golems went red-> blue -> minion in the river and then I think formerly wraiths and then died to golems.