He is right, R is now the standard evolve and about 1000x more useful than evolving e before level 11. You get stealth+damage reduction from R. all you get from E is a longer jump unless u actually get a kill/assist
speaking of kha, does anyone ever see rengar anymore?

man new trinket cooldown rly screwed early jungle invades.

thats what they're going for

no more easy early invades and lane swaps for riot

Been playing him since I got the tip in the solo queue thread. Started my ranked placement games (guess I was dropped after long inactivity), won 6/9 so far and have been lucky enough to get jungle every time.

I still have the distinct feeling that I'm doing something seriously wrong, though.

On average I'll go something like 5/4/15 and have the lowest "damage dealt to champs" by quite a fair margin (even support beating me handily).

Any pro tips on how to get the kill ratio up? I could get more when ganking, but typically I'll try to give the kill to the laner unless he is clearly bad / wayyy behind. But in team fights I very, very rarely end up grabbing a kill.

Or is this just how feral ww is supposed to roll?

For comparison, with manamune ww the power spike is definitely delayed by a fair bit compared to feral, but grabbing kills gets so much easier.

dont try to get more kills. try to die less.

Kazana for real, I think it was nisash who posted the WW build. It's a legit winner. Start the health jungle item (I forgot the name), then wits end, then go from there. Get ranuins at some point and win?

That's exactly the build I'm using. Still, think I'm doing something wrong to have 3x assists vs kills and only 10-20% more kills than deaths.
Dieing less will obv work.

Kills aren't that important, getting those assists is perfectly fine.

dont worry about kills. just worry about your KDA ratio: (kills + assists) / deaths

for ex, i had a fiddle game yesterday where I started at 2/2/15. I consider this a monster score. I ended 5/2/22 or something like that.

a KDA over 3:1 is good, 4:1 is great and 5:1 is amazing.

Cool beans then. I was just unsettled by seeing the "damage dealt to champions" more often than not being well below that of supports on my team.
I guess the lack of AoE on ww and not being in lane is a major factor then.

That`s a really good KDA.

Do you max w or e second? I max E second to have chase potential. I see a lot of ww players maxing W which I personally think is pretty bad.

I avg 6.8 kills on a decent sample , although I almost never leave kills and you should never leave kills aswell. Don`t trust anybody but yourself.

and this

I max W first, E second actually. Q last.
This being because I rarely use Q in the early phases due to mana cost (mainly AA & smiting tbh).
Big leak?

Yeah, your w isn`t really going to help you when ganking it`s like your main dmg source and maxing it will make the difference when somebody is running away.

Q--> E --> W

Maxing W gives you almost 100% uptime on W with FH and doubles the AS from 40-80% and 20-40% for allies. By the time you are maxing your second skill laning phase nearly over and the stronger objective control and free gold from W max seems superior to slightly higher MS and range from E max. Just imo. I usually get 2-3 levels in E and then max W. I think its pretty close either way.

I personally think it`s really bad to max W second and awful to max it first.

You don`t really benefit from attackspeed all that much, the target is not gonna stand still and let you auto. E is your gapcloser having that extra movementspeed is gonna make the difference between getting a kill and not getting a kill.

I remember playing with a lot of WWs who max W and I remember a lot of kills walking away because he was too slow.


Something I also do is using scaling CDR-Quints that way you get to 40% cdr with masteries and FH. I prefer to take Banshees over Spiritvisage even though SV has really good synergy with your passive/ult.

E max makes 0 sense. You gain a bit more movespeed, cept there are diminishing returns. 2-3 points in E, then max W gives you max W at lvl 14 iirc, which is when you will be teamfighting and taking objectives. E radius is too small at rank one but past rank 3 its usefulness declines because it already covers way more than the area of a teamfight or a nearby low hp person when ganking, and having W maxed at level 14/15 is much preferable to having to wait until level 18.

How do you farm if u max e second? u just take all blues buffs?

You got one point in W and you got attackspeed from items/runes don`t need blue buff for that. Although I usually take bluebuffs anyways. The thing is at one point you got so much attackspeed from items/W is just doesn`t bring a lot to the table the extra 10% Attackspeed on allies you get great for you ADC the rest doesn`t use it all that much unless it`s irelia/jax(banned 90% anyways^^).

You don`t have gapclosers and the target is gonna kite you + there will be a support who peels. Having that extra MS is great and lets you gapclose better and thus ultimately AA more.


WW overall is an easy champ but using his movementspeed isn`t easy, you have to auto --> move --> auto like an adc(well you have to do that with most champs guess with WW/yi type of champs it`s more important).

ive definitely seen WW jungles go Q->E->W before. it really helps you track down kills in ganks and teamfights. im not a WW player tho, so take what i say with a grain of salt.

iirc you typically went to lvl3 in E since you get tons of range with the first 2 level ups and then go back to W

I max W first, then some split of Q and E depending on my build.

I max R first.

Hue.

Owned

I always go q>e>w, and have about 4.7 kda over 32 games. The q max helps you so much with ganks and the e helps chasing big time. 1 pt in w seems like plenty to give your team a boost for taking towers and team fights. Most of my damage comes from ult then q then more q in teamfight with a few auto attacks

4.8 kda over 23 games, nyah nyah

The real conclusion from this whole discussion is ww OP