I'd ask on a NC/LC thread but I don't see one active in the last 3 months.

From my Bravo tourism it seems the 9/18 goes on Mondays and Thursdays. (I suspect it's a similar crowd to a higher-stakes mix somewhere else in Las Vegas on another day, but the 9/18 seems to be the stalwart.) What games do they tend to play?

Don’t play in it but definitely not horse or anything if that’s desired

Probably Drawmaha High, Draw 2-7, 2-7TD, Badugi, badeucey, Badacey super stud 8 and few other things depending on day

It's gone back to the Aria now? It was there many years ago, but then it moved to Wynn, and last time I was in town it had moved to Resorts World.

It’s still at resorts world, they just played there days Coach didn’t run the game.

During Series 8/16 will run every day at RW

Yeah, I figured it'd be heavy in draw games, split pot games, and "super" discard variants. I like the first two of those. Sounds like not much has changed from the $20-40 (maybe?) I played at the Wynn last time in LV five years ago.

Someone I know in LV is very opinionated about this mixed-games crew cutting off their nose to spite their face, focusing so hard on new variants to gain an edge that they scare off the casual player. I have no opinion, although I did feel that way the first time I sat in one of these. Does seem plausible. I just want to have a little fun playing games I don't get to play any other time.

I heard it's not a nice crowd there, my buddy played and no one would explain the rules to him for a variant he wasn't familiar with. Jerks. If I am in Vegas for the series I am not joining them.

I'd just ask the dealer, and if they can't answer, ask them to deal me out and then wander around until the game changes. It's supposedly rude to intentionally sit out a whole round of a game you don't want to play, but not 0.1% as rude as refusing to explain the rules to a new player. If they want to get me picked up, maybe that sends the message best of all.

Are dealers really not supposed to explain basic mechanics of play (e.g. which hand wins; when betting and draws take place) even if asked?

No i don’t think it’s cutting off their nose to spite their face

The fact of the matter is that there really isn’t any middle ground between someone that wants to play horse and people that like draw, split pot, super etc. So there’s really no discussion to be had.

And it’s not really to gain an edge although that is an another by product. You ask 100 people if they would rather play Dramaha 2-7 or Razz, what do you think would win?

But if more people wanted to play horse there would horse games instead. Many people love the new stuff. Horse players more or less have to focus on tournaments

Mixed gets lumped into one category. Let’s call Carnival Game A and Horse Game B. Game A runs all the time. If people want to play B someone needs to start it. Some have tried, doesn’t take.

Games still get plenty of casual players.

Lived here for a little while, been coming for years. Never have experienced anything like what your friend told you, ever

He told me they are not only unwelcoming but he got angled too. Maybe it was a different group but it was a lower stakes mix game in Vegas casinos, as I recall it was at Resorts World.

Coach runs that game so if he was playing during day and early evening when Coach was there than there is less than 0% chance that it happened

If late night who knows but I’m still doubtful

Coach is the type of guy that if there is a new player and they switch games he will pick up the plaque, show him, and say “you know how to play this one, son?”

Played last year during series at the must move to the main game for a few hours, probably 3/4 dealers solid but the 1/4 listened and adjusted well enough to the instructions given by multiple regs. I think there is a "feel" that is not condescending but also not entirely welcoming, it's somewhere in-between. This might have to do with the low amount of hands played when there has to be questions every street/draw/showdown. I feel like there is def two groups, both looking for the edge, one having the “you know how to play this one, son?” understanding that making someone comfortable is better for the experience (less likely to discuss and banter about strategy).The other that makes a sigh and encourages faster betting and raising on later streets/rivers to increase winrate, much more likely to throw out a "I thought you atleast had a badugi....". The latter is also pretty keen on whether you came to fire a bullet, get up and leave or get stuck 2-3 buy-ins, and come back the next day, this likely plays a part into their behavior. There was no outward "hey its on you" type of vibe but I could tell as a long time player, if regs can get quicker bets/calls/raises especially in the split pot games (with/without qualifiers) they can make more by making unfamiliar players make more loose calls or tight folds. Its always been an interesting psychological experiment to play these games because of this perceived "angle" aspect but again it will never be blatant enough to complain about. Table talk was different on main vs must move, even though most of the main/must move people know one another quite well. IMO that game is best to break the monotony of NLHE\PLO during series, challenge the mind, bring something back to your homegame, or hit a one or two outer for a scoop after capped three streets.

Only thing I noticed (rarely happens in Holdem) is that multiple people, whether in or out of the pot, at showdown will encourage you to table your hand (if you are the caller) after a winning hand is tabled. I looked at one of my hands for a while and studying the board and the opponents hand, and then mucked realizing that I had gotten scooped. I then was aware that the players in and out of the hand weren't really concerned about whether I could get half/quarter of the pot but wanting to see what I had called/played/drawn to which is fair, just the people outside of the hand concerned me because it made it feel more like they were invested in something beyond the hand in question, not to mention poor etiquette.

I may play again this summer but its not high priority

Didn’t get through all of this but are you talking about RW? Every single dealer there is basically A+ at dealing mixed games

Mixed game capital of Vegas right now

Will say though I guess it’s possible that there are some negative experiences at must move during the series

But that would basically be outsiders being rude to outsiders. Complete wild card.

Those are not the LV regs they would be at first table. And again if Coach was at table, it just didn’t happen.

Actually I agree that most of the people I have played with and the general vibe of the game are not particularly friendly.

However, the things said about Coach are correct. He is pretty friendly and would definitely be happy to explain a game to you.

I guess in a case like this there is YMMV and now that I’m thinking about it there are a few salty types. Haven’t played the game much. Just for fun and to get exposed to all the games.

Still I would state affirmatively
1) plenty of people willing to explain games and even give guidance if played way wrong
2) Dealers are great and none need to listen to players regarding the rules. They know games inside and out, if cards need to be reshuffled they know the procedures. Players can just sit back and play
3) it’s not cutthroat with people “looking for edge”. Honestly don’t even know what that means exactly lol. I mean people usually aren’t trying to lose. 90 year old man in a 4/8 O8b game is probably trying/hoping to win too, is he “looking for an edge”? 17 games or so in mix is set and don’t change.

Edit to add, just read that comment about suggesting to table hand. It rarely happens in Holdem because board is obviously easier to read. But if a guy who looks new to game is sitting there at end trying to figure it out if he gets a piece people are probably just being trying to be helpful. I agree that it’s poor etiquette though as it may influence who wins/loses but it’s doubtful to me they are fishing for info. After hand it’s fine to suggest just tabling in future but possibly doing so in moment is not due to a swarm of individuals looking to increase their EV, just to help and keep things moving.

Yes I am speaking about RW, and last year, during series the vegas regulars did not have the main game full of only themselves, not sure if it was a timing/list thing, or if they thought it would be better to be split between two games to help with their own profit (not unreasonable, smart players would want the series fish to cycle through at some point, this is unlikely if they have the main game locked up amongst themselves). As stated above the vibe isn't exactly friendly or rude, its just as one would expect for non holdem games, and yes the old man river at O8 is trying to squeak out as much profit as possible and will also wait for all hands to be tabled in position as he is afforded lol. There were def dealer mistakes and questions on hand readings reshuffling procedures, but as I said, if I was there for 4 downs, 3 of the dealers were solid.

There is no such thing as a "look", maybe someone who "sounds" new but I said nothing, and to believe people in vegas playing a mix of this many draw games are NOT looking for info from a losing tabled hand is also lol.

I never sat with Coach, but he came to our table multiple times to check stacks and see what was happening, but we had our own "vegas regular" table captain.

What usually happens is one game starts at 1pm and another game will go off around 4pm or so. I can pretty much assure you it’s not split up trying to increase profits or something like that. When Coach is playing he will often be trying to set the lineup for the next day (e.g Billy you want to play tomorrow?) and that would often comprise people playing that week whether they are Vegas regulars or not. If he has it set by the time he leaves he’s happy, that’s all there really is to it.

Dealer ratio seems low. Quite often they are in there dealing 4/8, 8/16, 20/40, 80/160, 300/600 (and higher). They all know how to deal mix.

We can agree to disagree (however every day during the series does not play out the same, per my experience with a must move of vegas regulars), and you cannot assure anyone of anything from a sheer logic perspective. The entire purpose of these games (besides breaking monotony), to the more learned, is to make enough novelty and fun to the unlearned to bring fresh money to the game, and to win said money, and to encourage a return to the mix in case they lose money. Otherwise it's likely to become a bunch of people that know one another away from poker exchanging money without any significant difference in ability. Especially these games with minimal study material, especially during series.

I understand your position, but to use a favorite 2p2 response, "two things can be factual at the same time."

I find this notion to be interesting. Maybe I’m just not gamboool enough, but I can’t imagine why some fish would want to sit in a game with a bunch of regs playing variants they are likely to be much more proficient at than me.

I’m sure your edge drops, but surely you draw a larger audience playing HORSE, or even HORSE plus like 2-7TD? Or, again, maybe I’m just not degenerate enough.

Not many want to play HORSE. And not everyone is out there looking for an edge. It’s just simply what people want to play. You wouldn’t get a bigger audience for HORSE. If that were true, the people who want to play HORSE would get and keep games going.

But the difference between the Carnival Game mix and HORSE is the Grand Canyon. It’s apples and oranges, no middle ground to be had.

It’s like a limit holdem player going up to a PLO table and saying they would get his business if they played LHE. It’s just completely different, PLO players can play their game and the LHE player can try and get his game going.

That makes sense, just no overlap between the pools.

Yeah it’s been that way for years, last mix that sort of straddled worlds was BOTE. But that was at least ten years ago, probably more.

But then the HORSE players call Circus fans stupid and not seeing the big picture. But they are mostly playing the games because they find them more fun. Sometimes it’s just as simple as that.

If there was an app to play Dramaha for play money against computer I’d probably play it in free time. Never would play Stud on it, and I enjoy Stud actually

I don't know that there is no overlap, or at least there was overlap 10 years ago. I like the HORSE mix, although razz isn't that exciting. But I also like playing triple draw lowball and badugi. I'm not as fond of badeucy but it's ok. I really like razzdeucy, or whatever they call stud low split, as a replacement for razz. But if you start playing mostly draw games, it gets dull for me, partially because after you fold there is nothing really to see when watching the others play out the hand. I also don't really like the "super" variants of omaha and stud that much and I don't really see the point of them. They're just a slower form of the regular games to me, which also makes things duller. And I HATE drawmaha. The game just makes no sense to me as you want almost totally different cards for the two sides of the pot, feels like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face when drawing. Then all the different versions of it make it so they're playing that more and more, just ruined the mix for me. Every time they have added a new game to the mix the game gets slower and duller and more frustrating, until it's just not fun anymore.