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10-29-2013 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hauturi
I just had time to check, and I'm not sure if I agree.

Playing two-handed:
678 gets there 56.3% / 63.8% (UTG/BTN) of the time (provided all 4's, 5's, 9's and tens are alive)

3-handed:
56.3%/63.8%/72.3%

4-handed:
56.3%/63.8%/72.3%/81.4%

for one-gapper 679 (again provided that all 5's, 8's and tens are alive):

4-handed: 41.8%/48.1%/55.7%/64.7%

Use 3 or 2 first figures for 3- and 2-handed.

similarly for two-gapper (579, 569, 589 etc):

27.3%/32.5%/39.2%/47.9%

(Again, use 3 or 2 first figures for 3- and 2-handed.)

How did you come up with your numbers?

(the probabilities above are for that of the eight cards to come there are at least two cards that together complete the straight. Decisions made during the game are not included in the calculations)
I'm not sure if you considered dead cards but the numbers seemed off to me if you did. Suppose Hero starts with 678 and all 4's, 5's, 9's and tens are alive and we see 5 dead cards, our chance of hitting a straight is pretty high, even if we miss on 6th street.

Based on a simulation of about 10K hands and missing on the 6th street, we estimated the % of hitting a straight to be 65.5%. Below is the simulation.

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10-29-2013 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowHabit
I'm not sure if you considered dead cards but the numbers seemed off to me if you did. Suppose Hero starts with 678 and all 4's, 5's, 9's and tens are alive and we see 5 dead cards, our chance of hitting a straight is pretty high, even if we miss on 6th street.

Based on a simulation of about 10K hands and missing on the 6th street, we estimated the % of hitting a straight to be 65.5%. Below is the simulation.
I did consider dead cards. The figures I gave were on the fifth street; the figures for UTG are for 47 unknown cards and 8 cards to come; UTG+1 = 42/8 etc.

If you look at the 6th street (2-handed), there are 41 or 40 unknown cards and 7 cards to come. Assuming all outs are alive, the percentages are: 56.87834769% (UTG) / 58.54070789% (BTN).

These are calculated, not simulated. And to get a reliable result from simulation, you need at least 10M hands, not 10K (and even then you can easily be off by 0.1-0.2 percentage points).
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10-29-2013 , 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVpokerPRO
Welcome to pineapple
what he said.
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10-30-2013 , 03:33 AM
Criss Cross with FL, UTG.

AhQd6d5s2s
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10-30-2013 , 05:54 AM
Q
A6
52
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10-30-2013 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelflush
Q
A6
52
I see sets like this all the time, but how is it optimal when any early 6 essentially screws up the whole thing. And based on the info we have, the 6 is just as likely to show up as the 5 or the deuce. 2pr in the middle is a disaster, no?

Isn't this better?

Q
A
652

...and play for 2 pr in the back and AA in the middle and cruise to FL? If the next card comes 3/4 there's a big decision to make, but depending on position we'll have a LOT more information to make that decision (and lots of dead spots in the middle to dump the card if we don't want to go for the gutshot).
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10-30-2013 , 11:39 AM
Yeah I set Q/A6/52ss also but not sure if right...
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10-30-2013 , 12:00 PM
Q/A6/52ss for me
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10-30-2013 , 01:13 PM
I think pineapple or regular setting Q/A/652 is slightly better since the Q,A,K of spades are outs toward your flush on the bottom that u need to put elsewhere.
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10-30-2013 , 01:39 PM
Early 6 of spades goes on bottom. Not a big concern.
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10-30-2013 , 04:03 PM
I have not read any of the thread but I had a question about the rules. If I am playing heads up and get fantasy land and then in fantasy land my opponent successfully gets QQ up top, does he go to fantasy land the next hand?
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10-30-2013 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyy214
I have not read any of the thread but I had a question about the rules. If I am playing heads up and get fantasy land and then in fantasy land my opponent successfully gets QQ up top, does he go to fantasy land the next hand?
Yes, he does.
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10-30-2013 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havocofsmeg
Yes, he does.
so if he gets QQ up top and I get a straight flush on the bottom do we both just play a normal chinese poker hand?
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10-30-2013 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyy214
I have not read any of the thread but I had a question about the rules. If I am playing heads up and get fantasy land and then in fantasy land my opponent successfully gets QQ up top, does he go to fantasy land the next hand?
Yes.
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10-30-2013 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyy214
so if he gets QQ up top and I get a straight flush on the bottom do we both just play a normal chinese poker hand?
No, you need a top hand to make it FL
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10-30-2013 , 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVpokerPRO
No, you need a top hand to make it FL
Straight flush remains in FL.
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10-30-2013 , 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelflush
Straight flush remains in FL.
I didn't see he was in FL in the question I thought he meant just in general if you get a straight flush do you make FL. My mistake
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10-30-2013 , 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hauturi
I did consider dead cards. The figures I gave were on the fifth street; the figures for UTG are for 47 unknown cards and 8 cards to come; UTG+1 = 42/8 etc.

If you look at the 6th street (2-handed), there are 41 or 40 unknown cards and 7 cards to come. Assuming all outs are alive, the percentages are: 56.87834769% (UTG) / 58.54070789% (BTN).

These are calculated, not simulated. And to get a reliable result from simulation, you need at least 10M hands, not 10K (and even then you can easily be off by 0.1-0.2 percentage points).
I agree that a simulation of 10K hands can be off. For certain spots, even 10M+ hands don't produce accurate results either. However, I'm fairly confident in the simulation I posted because the standard deviation is low. Of course, the standard deviation is also an estimate so take the result with a grain salt.

Also, I don't think knowing the percentage of getting there without taking account the fouling % is too helpful. Our simulation takes fouling % into consideration to produce the equity of the play.
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10-31-2013 , 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowHabit
I agree that a simulation of 10K hands can be off. For certain spots, even 10M+ hands don't produce accurate results either. However, I'm fairly confident in the simulation I posted because the standard deviation is low. Of course, the standard deviation is also an estimate so take the result with a grain salt.

Also, I don't think knowing the percentage of getting there without taking account the fouling % is too helpful. Our simulation takes fouling % into consideration to produce the equity of the play.
Well, if you get 65.5% we are either talking about different situations, or the simulation is a way off. Probably the first.

Of course the more you know the better your situation. I have written a calculator, not a simulator, and calculating fouling-% is almost impossible until quite late in game (you can use the calculator for that though in certain situations). I may some day write a simulator too, but since my app is intended to be used in mobile devices even without connectivity, running 10M or so simuations isn't feasible. It does however calculate even complex probabilities (which no other app does) in a few milliseconds.
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11-01-2013 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticketmaster
Criss Cross with FL, UTG.

AhQd6d5s2s
My initial guess was Qd / Ah / 6d5s2s since we have more outs for two pairs and more draws for straights. However, my simulation showed otherwise. Of course, results might be different if Villain has a different hand but that would take forever to play around with. The simulation is to give you an idea of which play is better. I used a hand where Hero's next draw card misses but the card doesn't impact Villain's hand either.



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11-01-2013 , 07:36 PM
I just introduced a friend to the game. He's probably played less than 200 hands when he got dealt AKQJ10 UTG, heads up and placed the straight at the bottom and typed "that was easy" into our chat box.

I plan on responding to him that it's a little more complicated that it looks (even if his setting turns out to be the best), but would like to hear some thoughts on this first. Would you set the straight on the bottom like my friend did or would you choose another set?

I personally, would probably have played J/K/AQ10hhh or x/KJ/AQ10hhh.
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11-01-2013 , 08:04 PM
K/A/QJT or J/K/AQT seems interesting. However, after I ran some simulations, AKQJT on bottom kills it. Here are the results.





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11-02-2013 , 10:18 PM
Just got our thread up in the Commercial Market Place:
Check Us Out

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 11-21-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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11-04-2013 , 06:27 AM
any reason that link is to "solvingof.com" and not solvingofC.com? is solvingofc.com your product?
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11-04-2013 , 04:31 PM
Quick question on some theory behind this run. We're playing criss cross normal scoring. To hit fantasy you need 99 up top, to repeat JJ up top boat In the middle quads on the bottom. Here's the question, a friend and I are playing a mutual friend and he's gone on a run of about 2,000+ points in 500 hands against us and he's hit some legit insane runs to make his fantasies. Sometimes he passes up on direct outs to go for the royalty which seems odd to us. We both repeated double fantasy for 3 rounds and he scored 200 on me in those 3 rounds. Is this run fathomable or is there just foul play.
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