For me, Ace on top, 5 in the middle. Fantasy land is where the money is made, imo

Wouldn't be surprised if ace down low king top is correct

Probably depends on live spades

How did you calculate these? I usually set hand 1 9T/3/QQ but agree that hand 2 best set is 777J/x/K. Are those calculations based only on V's hand since it is so strong? What if V's hand is 246JJ?

It's best variant.
EV 4.12 DH 52% FL 48%

Case: Ace on bottom, 5 in the middle
EV 2.49 DH 0% FL 13%

EV 3.02 DH ~0.001 % FL 14%

Fantasy land was taken 9.5 points

fl is nowhere near 9.5

My guess is As Bottom 5h Middle. Simulator says:



Wow, I was off by a bit. Cool spot, I think I will add it to my Twitter hand of the day series, thanks.

Thanks for all the replies guys!

@Tomich what is DH%, and where do your numbers come from?
@ActionDJ stoked on hand of the day, didn't know about that and will follow

I crunched some basic math but felt like there's so much in play (including opponents threat of scooping etc) that it's beyond my ability to really logically assess.

So beyond the simulators, anyone willing to take a stab at sharing the logic you'd use to make this decision in game?

How is putting jack in the middle bad? How much better is jack in the back allegedly? I'm assuming we set first

Is it's a six is that enough difference to go middle

My logic is fairly simple (I did no real math)
I try and go to fantasy land as much as possible, so it a fairly easy decision and we still have 7 spades ♠ to catch. I'd play it this way all most all the time. Unless there is a penalty for fouling, even then I'd probably still go this route. I think fantasy land outweighs all.

Hello Alpha Fish.

I do not want to defend 9.5, becose the fact that game rules and opponents skills make great influence on Fantasy land estimation.

I studied 10687 deals from 4 strong players against about 70 good, normal and weak players, and find that the strong players recive about 9.5 points from "FL against non FL" (in my calculations I use "FL against non FL").

DH = Dead Hand

The values was obtained by training simulator Ananas. This simulator using Monte Carlo method to compare different hands (count of iterations can be various, but it must be big enough, in anyway). Decisions in each iteration are made by certain basic strategy, wich is know-how of Pinecone team.

Jack in bottom give us about 0.35 point.
But when you have 6 - middle is better on about 0.6

How about this Pineapple decision:

Me:
Top: Qh
Middle: 3c 2h As
Bottom: 8d 5d 3d

Opponent:
Top: Qc
Middle: Jd 7d 9c
Bottom: Js 6s 5s

My turn with this pull: Ks Qs 3s

All blockers to opponents bottom flush. Seems like I should put the Qs up top for FL potential. Then? K in middle and any A or K is good enough to support my QQ? Or 3 in middle and need case 3 or 2 or A to make middle hand? Or 3 at bottom for one pair there and just go for 2 pair / trips rather than flush?

I went with K in middle. That gives me 6 outs for the middle (any A or K and opponent has no blockers) and flexibility on the bottom to pursue flush or take 2 pair or trips if that arrives. Putting the 3 in the middle gives me one more out there but less flexibility at the bottom.

Also would I ever not put the Q up top here (if so, why not)?

Are there any good resources for Deuce Pineapple out there? Any simulators?

New to the game.

Opening 5 question: Ks Kd Qc Jc 2h

First to act. Thoughts?

Q-kk2-J

Agreed Q on top kings in the middle

@LV

why do you put the 2 in the middle instead of with the J? to leave open the possibility of straight/flush on the bottom? if so would you consider putting the 2 on the bottom and J in the middle instead? (one more heart available)

and are you sure this is better than J2 on bottom?

Thanks for the responses. Was wondering OnMyBike's question as well.

What about this one? OOP, opponent has set Qc/5h4h/Td9c.

I am dealt Ks Kd 5d 6h 7c.

I ended up going x/567/KK. Not ambitious/aggro enough, or fine?

edit: at the very least, I think I prefer x/KK/567 over mine, and even this play I'm totally unsure about as well

Posted this one in a thread on RIO and Jen Shahade thinks we should go QJcc/KK/2h (top/middle/back). There's so many varying opinions on the tough spots in this game.

I think it all depends on how aggressive you want to play it.

Obv. going for FL = more aggressive.

Aggro = QJ/KK/2
Stable = _/KK2h/QJcc

If we're just looking to maximize the pointEV of our open though, one approach of those two will always have a higher expected value than the other play. Obviously this requires a point estimate on the value of FL.

I suppose what I mean to say is that "aggro" and "stable" are just arbitrary terms we can choose to ascribe to various plays with the same 5 cards, but mathematically, one will outperform the other in expectation.

And also it matters if we're going first or not, no? (Outs, etc)

Of course.