I don't agree on the 2 pair

X-224-33

Oesd hand 2

X-89-6710ddd

+1

+1

Assuming there's no 3 of a suit, is anyone trying x/3322/4?

Glad the thread is picking up again, I've been playing tons online on a site and crushing but I still have lots to learn.

lol no


33 back, 224 middle for me

There's no definitive proof that this is wrong, just that you have fewer options for the 4 in back - you're limited to other 4's, random pairs and a one-to-flush that's hard to make. A straight is rather unlikely with the dead 2233. I've been experimenting w/early two-pair middle sets and I don't mind the two-pair mid although I'd rather have a more live back row like

x
3d 3c 2c 2h
8s

With no high broadway card in the first 5 like A Q or K I'd be setting up for a full house royalty in back. 4 live outs gives you ~70-80% chance for a boat and 3 live outs is ~60-70%.

Best set is most likely:

x
4
3322

or if you want to experiment try

x
33224
x

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm on the side of x/224/33. This is a pretty terrible starting hand to begin with, and giving up the potential value of hitting both sets of trips strikes me as bad.

2 pair back is in fact the best play (with 4 in the middle), by at least .3 points.

I would highly rethink your starting strategy if you are putting 33 back 224 middle, its probably about a 2.5 point error.

The bottom line is that 2pair back opens you up to a 71% chance at a full house - .71*6 =4.26 points. No other line can guarantee that many royalties. For example, with 33 back 224 middle, you need: 3 (2 outs) or running pair (complicated), to 2 or 4 (or running pair lower than the other running pair, again complicated), to some form of QQ KK AA. Let's just say this happens 25% of the time, which I think is a high estimate. That gets you .25*15.5 = 3.875, and that comes with a high chance of fouling because we have some more allin sets.

Build from the ground up on this one. I am all for splitting 224AA 224KK or 224QQ, but here its a clear 2 pair back.

Oh also, we are hitting running AA->KK or QQ, or KK ->QQ quite a bit with 2 pair back, and have a significantly lower foul percent because we already have the 2pair back. Whereas with the 224 middle 33 back, we will always jam QQ,KK,AA up top when we get it and while that is the correct move (+EV ), it is not as +EV as having set the hand with 2pair back, and then doing it. With 2pair back, if you draw KK or AA, it goes in the middle and does not increase fouling (QQ might also go in the middle depending on situation).

We hit these running cards the same frequency regardless of how we set our first 5 cards, but the way we play them will be different based on how we set our first five cards.

I'm quite sure this is wrong, too. Any pair we draw goes in the back.

Respectfully disagree with ActionDJ, too many times you will end up with bigger 2 pair in middle and never make your boat on the bottom, or get drawn a pair of 9's or something that maybe someone puts in middle and now your are stuck with it as you don't improve the back.

agree with LVPP

Let me get this straight. The x/224/33 "plan" is to catch 3 more running pairs?

No, the plan is to improve our hand with live cards, and we're going to do that even if they're big. If you wouldn't be happier holding x/224/33QQ than QQ/4/2233 you're very strange.

1) As DJ mentioned it would be QQ/224/33; if you're not going hard for FL what the heck are you splitting the pairs for in the first place

2) AFA improving with live cards goes, I'll stick with my 70-80% plan to boat the back with x/4/2233 for +6, thx.

You can have your boat for 6, I'll take queens+ and fl over a boat, that's why we play the game

I'll be in Vegas for WSOP anyone that wants the 2233 back we can take turns playing that hand against a random hand.

yeah I don't know what the fuss over this boat is about, I'm pretty sure there's a non-zero chance that we end up with a boat w/33 anyway

OFCP QQ fantasy. As Ks Qd 3d 9h?

You guys need to start telling us if you're first to act or not

KQ-A3-9

Without additional info, obv implied that no other cards are seen.

my vote

x
4
2233

for bankroll question: i think 1000 points should be the min and 3000 points is conservative.