Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Learning mixed games advice Learning mixed games advice

07-24-2022 , 02:49 PM
Hi all, surprised not to see much on generic advice on how to transition from hold'em to mixed games.

Background: European. Rec player now, used to make money playing live 2/5 in London consistently for 3-4 years but then got a job and now player poker less frequently. Bored with hold'em - too much tanking etc. live; players too good online...

Keen to hear any thoughts and would have the following question:

1) Any conventional wisdom on which ones to "learn first" - i would guess Limit hold'em ---> Omaha ---> Omaha8 ---> Stud ---> Stud8 ---> Razz ---> Draw games would be a sensible order.
2) Best resources if one wants to learn fast. Any reviews on the below? Seems like options are:
- Upswing Poker ($1,000): Expensive and course doesn't seem that long. But modular and designed to teach from limited knowledge. TBD how deep it goes into each game?
- Run It Once ($100/month): Guaranteed high quality content but jumbled (i.e. not modular and easy to learn from) and potentially outdated? e.g. seems like some of the most recent videos for some games are multiple years old, recognise that these games don't develop as quick as NLH though.
- YouTube/Twitch ($0/month): Some decent intros - e.g. Dnegs 10 min primers and the Twitch guys are obviously good players but don't always talk strategy, often jump between games which makes it hard to learn. Rest of YouTube not that helpful
3) I would like to play HORSE and 8game tournaments and will likely play EPT Barcelona HORSE tournament next month (I played it last year but really knew nothing about the games). I doubt I will every get the chance to play cash games live given I live in EU (or have the interest in playing any large stakes online). I presume I shouldn't worry about wanting to learn the limit strategy. The example I would give is that if I want to play Omaha8 online to practice at 5/10c or 10/25c, these buy-in levels are unlikely to see an L08 running but only PLO8. So I should just concentrate on learning strategy for PLO8 and then will be able to bring it across to L08 fairly easily..?

Appreciate any help on answering any of these three questions.
Learning mixed games advice Quote
07-27-2022 , 09:47 PM
www.countingouts.com is a solid site with decent info on lots of the games

does pokerstars accept players from your country? they'd have some HORSE and mix games where you could practice (either for real money or play money), I'd expect
Learning mixed games advice Quote
07-29-2022 , 04:38 PM
I got the Upswing course a few years ago. I think it was worth the money. You are basically paying $200 per game. Razz, Stud, Stud8, LO8, and 2-7 TD. It has helped me do well in mixed game tourneys when I travel to Vegas. 4/5 cashes (3/3 in WSOP events) with one 4 way chop in a smaller field tourney at the Orleans. So from an investment standpoint I have already made back the $1k + some profit.

He goes over basic concepts, then explains those concepts with Pro Poker Tools to help understand equities, then there is usually a review of high stakes action and going over hands in depth. Several hours worth of content for each game.

Then of course you just have to find games. If you can play on Pokerstars or GG then that shouldnt be an issue but for US players it can be hard. Online its limited to private clubs on apps and its hard to find casinos that spread it away from Vegas.


BTW LO8 and PLO8 play completely differently from a strategy perspective. Mainly because getting quartered in LO8 usually isnt a big deal and you still pay off, but getting quartered in a big PLO8 can cost you a lot. There are absolutely spots where you need to fold nut lows in PLO8 because you are so likely to get quartered, but you never fold even 2nd nut low in LO8 generally.
Learning mixed games advice Quote
07-29-2022 , 04:39 PM
I got the Upswing course a few years ago. I think it was worth the money. You are basically paying $200 per game. Razz, Stud, Stud8, LO8, and 2-7 TD. It has helped me do well in mixed game tourneys when I travel to Vegas. 4/5 cashes (3/3 in WSOP events) with one 4 way chop in a smaller field tourney at the Orleans. So from an investment standpoint I have already made back the $1k + some profit.

He goes over basic concepts, then explains those concepts with Pro Poker Tools to help understand equities, then there is usually a review of high stakes action and going over hands in depth. Several hours worth of content for each game.

Then of course you just have to find games. If you can play on Pokerstars or GG then that shouldnt be an issue but for US players it can be hard. Online its limited to private clubs on apps and its hard to find casinos that spread it away from Vegas.


BTW LO8 and PLO8 play completely differently from a strategy perspective. Mainly because getting quartered in LO8 usually isnt a big deal and you still pay off, but getting quartered in a big PLO8 can cost you a lot. There are absolutely spots where you need to fold nut lows in PLO8 because you are so likely to get quartered, but you never fold even 2nd nut low in LO8 generally.
Learning mixed games advice Quote
07-29-2022 , 05:58 PM
i'm about to buy this course THREE times so i can go 9/9 next WSOP
Learning mixed games advice Quote
07-30-2022 , 10:33 AM
Appreciate the write-up Ledn + the note re LO8
Learning mixed games advice Quote
08-01-2022 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada
i'm about to buy this course THREE times so i can go 9/9 next WSOP
That kills your ROI though.. triple the investment
Learning mixed games advice Quote
08-02-2022 , 03:54 AM
I find watching some of the PokerGo streams with expert commentators like Schulman, Vitch etc. really helped me think about these games a lot more deeply. Sadly PokerGo seems to be taking down some of their older full streams and replacing them with with hour highlight packages or just deleting them all together. I was going to suggest the 2019 PPC as a good place to start as they covered that from two tables down but I can't find it on their site (Thanks PokerGo!)

Also worth noting that tournament mixed is very different from cash games. Ranges are very different at >10 big bets and you have to balance pot odds against the value of saving bets when stacks get shallower. I would imagine those training courses focus on cash, and that should give you a good grounding in the games that you can then adapt to tournaments.

Honestly, one of the best ways I spent my study time was just plugging hands into a calculator and understanding the equities street-by-street. If you can get a handle on those you should be able to find edges in most games.
Learning mixed games advice Quote
08-05-2022 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordbyronnz
I find watching some of the PokerGo streams with expert commentators like Schulman, Vitch etc. really helped me think about these games a lot more deeply. Sadly PokerGo seems to be taking down some of their older full streams and replacing them with with hour highlight packages or just deleting them all together. I was going to suggest the 2019 PPC as a good place to start as they covered that from two tables down but I can't find it on their site (Thanks PokerGo!)

Also worth noting that tournament mixed is very different from cash games. Ranges are very different at >10 big bets and you have to balance pot odds against the value of saving bets when stacks get shallower. I would imagine those training courses focus on cash, and that should give you a good grounding in the games that you can then adapt to tournaments.

Honestly, one of the best ways I spent my study time was just plugging hands into a calculator and understanding the equities street-by-street. If you can get a handle on those you should be able to find edges in most games.
I would think that the Dolly's Game mix games that I worked on should still be on there, FWIW. Those are cash games
Learning mixed games advice Quote
08-06-2022 , 10:11 AM
Make an account on SWC poker, will be the cheapest way to get some practice at the mixed games.
Learning mixed games advice Quote
08-06-2022 , 11:54 AM
We have a small group, usually a full table, that plays mixed games several times a week. We play on KingsClub and usually the lowball (forgot the table name on the site) or crazy mix which has like 13 games in rotation. Play low stakes $1.5/3 and buyin can be as low as $37.50. Always several people that don't know the games and ask questions. More about fun and trash talking each other than anything else but you get some hands in and we discuss them in a group chat somewhat. Welcome to join us, definitely not some cut throat group. Most have know each other, online, for a couple years.
Learning mixed games advice Quote

      
m