Debating about playing a RAZZ tournament. How much luck/skills is involved in this game? It looks like you have to play your cards and the board pretty straight forward, and occasionally bluff. Should I give it a try?

It will probably be one of the softest tourneys that you will ever play tbh. Learn some basic Razz strat you will notice people making very basic mistakes over and over again.

It is a higher variance game because equities run close and pots get big as people chase to river.

Live reads are more important than you may think. A good card for someone's board could actually be a really bad card for them if it pairs them, and some people give that info away pretty easily.

As is generally the case with live poker, people will play too loose early on and then overly tighten up as the limits increase and stacks become shallow.


Heres a few pointers:

Steal often from late position esp if your upcard is good.

Dont auto fold a decent T or J in the bring in because a 7 or 8 completes. They could be on a steal and even if they arent, A2T is favored over 568

If your board is better, be aggressive. Dont auto check to the aggressor, like is more standard in holdem. Equities change too much each street. If you get a good card and your opponent gets a bad card then bet it, dont let them check back and realize equity for free.

it's a lot more nuanced and complex than most people think it is

but most people are probably in your boat so sure why not try it out

Thanks for the good pointers

Eying the 1500$ WSOP Razz in case I bust of the main event. Could be great fun!

Razz is easier than the other poker games, hence, only one real book on the game viz: Sklansky on Razz.

As for the tourney, it must be full of old hands and newbies so meh.

A longgggg time ago, I was doing quite well playing online Razz at Full Tilt. After black Friday the next hand of Razz I played was last year at the WSOP Horse tournament. And to my surprise, at least half the players at my table were absolutely clueless with this particular game.

If you do just a bit of reading in the next month, you'll be a small favorite in the lower wsop buyin mixes.

Good luck learning a very fun and sometimes very frustrating game!

865 is a 60/40 favorite over A2T

Finished 39th in the $1500 Razz. Had a good time.


Yea I was mistaken about A2T being a fav over 865. I guess I was referring to A2T being favored vs an 8 steal range, not particularly 865.

Razz is by no means easy I've often heard mix game grinders say it's the most difficult game in HORSE, and I tend to agree it's certainly the hardest stud games.

That said, it's a game where a better, exploitive player can gain a huge edge over inferior opposition. A better player has a much larger edge in Razz then they do in Holdem, simply because the mistakes are generally huge. There are very few close, marginal spots the cost if missing a bet, paying off unnecessarily, and especially folding the best hand are as big as mistakes can be in a limit game.

As was already said by someone here, equities change alot on every street. Possibly even more so then PLO. The real trick to razz is being able to spot the times when you're in fact a much bigger favorite then your situation usually indicates. Information is gold. While in Holdem, nothing a specific betting pattern that an opponent never deviates fro my I flares your EV from them, in Razz it's the difference between vreaki g even against somebody and crushing them. The nuances behind reading people's boards properly, the value of blockers, and the gap concept, which imo plays a bigger role then in any other variant, and how to best realize the equity gained from understanding these concepts have never been addressed in any book I've seen. You'll only really here about how insane razz is in convos that experts only have privately. Razz is def my fav. Bring it back. Nobody needs three varients of baduci in a mix game. Remove one and bring back razz.l!

a2T is not a hot and cold favorite, but I still the it's a better hand in most situations (depending on your upcards.) 4th Street is much more definitive, and your best run-outs tend to be better hidden. My problem with 865 type hands is that when they do well enough to value bet 4th st. on, similar parts of your range do terribly, and there's no way to balance them lm you just can't hide information, making it hard to get paid off. A2T is the opposite. Its good run-outs tend to be good all over your range for keeping it, allowing more ways vbet, bluff, and even merge. Yeah you'll have to give up early more often but in Razz that's a good problem to have.

The notion that razz is more difficult, skillful, or just about anything else than stud is completely insane

cmon, man what's wrong with badeucey

It has no bluffing. Games without bluffing aren't poker.

I mean I *mostly* agree w this but you vegas people play that insane Captain game which is way further down the spectrum of "not poker"

Back that up.

I mean he's obviously right, one game has 52 cards the other only has 13.

ok, i get that

but it's fun!!!

In Badeucey there can be over representation and some bluffing, maybe for just one of the sides though usually but still