Live game, hundred dollar buy in, we play a wide variety of games and this is a game of Crazy Pineapple (the way we, and most people play it around these parts, is to discard after the flop)

Blinds are .50/1.00

Hero (UTG):260.00
Villian on button: 215.00
Villian in BB 180.00

***HOLE CARDS***
Hero:9910

***PREFLOP***
Hero raises to 4 dollars, button reraises to 16, BB calls, hero calls.

***FLOP***
J89

Decision #1, what to discard? Good chance someone flopped a straight, I could be up against a set of jacks, AJ of diamonds etc...

I mucked my 10d.

BB checks, I bet 30.00 Button makes it 120 all day, BB shoves all in for not much more at all. Hero?

How do you feel if you had kept the 10 of diamonds?

Disclaimer: I am not exactly a crazy pineapple expert, so if this is flame worthy, whatever, ill take it, but some substance would be appreciated.

How many are seated at the table? Assuming at least five, I probably don't raise before the flop with this hand, especially when at a table with someone who might re-raise. One can make a very good case for folding this hand before the flop in a game where at least five of you are dealt cards. This is not a very good starting hand. My choice too.
Gadzooks!!! Everybody likes this flop??? (rhetorical)

At any rate, the probability your trip nines will end up a full house after this flop is 0.341. That makes it only 1.936 to 1 against your hand ending up as part of a full house.

Assuming Button actually has a straight and raises all-in, you lose your implied pot odds. (That's a good enough reason to not raise with this hand before the flop). In that case, your pot odds are (48+164+199) to 199, or 2.065 to 1. Since those are better than the odds against making your hand, you have favorable odds to call if the Villains have straights. (You actually have better hand odds than 1.936 if we take cards that make straights out of the deck). But what if one of them has flopped a set of jacks?

A set of jacks is the danger here. Your hand is dominated by a set of jacks. But there is only about a 1.7% chance one of these two opponents has a set of jacks (assuming nobody is wacko enough to see the flop for $16 with JJJ).

2*129/15180 =~1.7%

In other words, it's about 60 to 1 neither opponent has a set of jacks.

It's fairly likely an opponent, has flopped a straight, assuming they see the flop with trash hands.

6*3 QQT
4*3 QTT
4*3*4 QT7
3*4 TT7
3*6 T77
4*3*35 QTX
3*4*35 T7X
18+12+48+12+18+420+420=948

2*948/15180 =~12.5%

With two opponents, it's slightly more likely one has flopped a straight and the other has flopped a set of jacks than both have flopped straights.

3*2 QQT
3*1 QTT
3*1*4 QT7
1*4 TT7
2*6 T77
3*1*34 QTX
2*4*34 T7X
6+3+12+4+12+102+102=241
241/15180=~1.59%. (This is all the further I have to go to conclude two straights are not as likely as a set of jacks and one straight).

I think there's a greater chance BB actually has the straight and Button's raise to $120 was a semi-bluff (or bluff).

I bite the bullet and call the double raise hoping for a board pair and neither opponent making quads or jacks full on the turn or river.
I don't know. In retrospect, maybe that would have been better.

Since Hero discarded the T, neither opponent can have the straight and also a better diamond draw, or a set of jacks or eights plus a better diamond draw. So if Hero had kept the T, he would be basically drawing for a queen or a diamond, 12 outs twice. 12/46+34/46*12/45=0.261+0.197=0.458. It's almost even that Hero will make a diamond flush (presumably the winning hand here) or a queen high flush (which possibly ties an opponent with a queen high flush). But who knew at the time of the discard they'd both go nuts after this flop? (rhetorical)

Buzz

First of all, let me say that I think you have a premium starting hand, especially if you are playing against opponents who think AAx or KKx is a through ticket.

It's opponent-dependent, but if these guys are hold em players I stack off the flop and keep the set. I'm hoping I'm against an overpair and a straight, or an overpair and a flush draw. If I'm against a straight, I don't want to draw to a tie. If I'm against a flush draw, I don't want to draw to a smaller one. If they both have straights, I still have outs and one of them is dead money. In fact, there aren't many situations where there isn't dead money in the pot.

When I wrote that sentence, I was somehow thinking you were playing the high/low game. The only way I have ever played or seen crazy pineapple dealt in a casino is as a high/low game. I don't think it is a very good starting hand for the high/low game.

But Mack writes that it's a premium hand.

There's a huge discrepancy between "not very good" and "premium." I think it's only explained by the difference between the high/low game and the high-only game.

Looking back at the starting post, there's no mention of high/low or high-only. But Mack (logically) has to be presuming it is high-only.

I have no experience playing high-only crazy-pineapple. And I have not spent any time analyzing the game. Therefore I take back my comment about the quality of this starting hand.

Buzz

Ah. Light bulb goes on. I only get to play hi-lo when in the Golden State and keep forgetting that most people play it that way. Yeah, I like this hand high-only, preferably pot-limit against people who marry big pairs.

(Although as I think we were discussing at the Bike, I've won my biggest CP8 pots with these hands against people who were chasing lows and missed. They are brutal to play in these games, however. )

Hi Mack - What's interesting is I checked your listing of the top 20% of CP-8 starting hands, just to make sure that hand, (T9)T, which you would probably have shown as Tc 9c Td or Td 9d Tc, was not listed before writing my comment. You posted that listing a while back and I refer to it from time to time. But there is no hand on that top 20% list that has a ten without also having an ace.

However that's for the high/low game.

Buzz

On the all-high list it is ranked #101 of 1755. Weighted it is 1196 of 22100. (Heads up rankings.) It stays fairly near to the 95th %ile from 2-10 players.

I am amazed that I get 10x better analsys in this forum vs any of the NLHE forums. Thanks guys.

To clarify, this is high only, pot limit. This is a card room with 6 players total at the table at the time this hand goes down.

If you are interested in reads, we are all fairly solid and experienced in a variety of games. I would say 4 good TAGs and 2 tough LAGs (myself being one)

the main thing here is that while a straight flush draw looks pretty it is still just a one card open ender which reduces your equity considerably since everybody can use the 9. you could be drawing dead to a chop on your straight and your flush draw could be dominated. if you decide to keep the T9dd you have to also think what kind of action you will get on this flop if you play it hard, most likely from flopped straights, sets of JJ or 88 and two pair combos, a range of hands that fare pretty well even against an open ended straight draw. 999 on the other hand can take the heat (except against JJ obviously) and can draw out against straights while T9 may be drawing to a chop.