Hello everyone, I am kinda new to this mixed game street.

I encountered a situation yesterday, and want to see how you guys think about this.

K bring in 5.
V next to act complete 20 with an 8 ( I played with this V for a long time, he is an aggressive winning player)
Hero next to act with (A4)2. I look around, there are a 7, T, and other picture cards behind me.
Seems like an easy 2 bet for me at this spot, So Hero 2b to 40 and everyone fold to V as expected.
V now 3bet to 60, Hero call.

4th street: V(xx)87 bet, Hero (A4)24 call
5th street: V(xx)876 bet, Hero (A4)249 fold

I think 4th and 5th street plays are very straight forward, either I against 3 suited babe, roll up or high pair in hole.
it's more likely roll up or high pair when he 3bet me pre. with the cards I catch, I just can't continue.

My question is whether Hero should 2bet pre or not. looks like this is what V expect and want me to do.
Maybe Hero should just smooth call 20, and lure other weak hands in at this spot (most likely they will play high).

Thanks for your time and let me know your thought on this.

Nininine

You don't have enough cards for super stud.

If this is just stud 8/b .. flatting is better. Unless you are building history with said villain specifically to stud 8. Then you can mix in a raise here.

In general isolating yourself with the worst of it isn't profitable.

I discarded 2 picture cards, I forgot what it is. Sorry forgot to mention that. It’s super stud hi/lo

If this is just standard stud 8 then it seems like an easy raise. I don’t play super stud but I imagine it plays the same - easy raise vs an 8

i would never not reraise in normal s8

in ss8 i actually see an argument for flatting, though. competent opponents in ss8 completing an 8 aren't going to have dorky 3-card 8's here. they're gonna have AA, 888, 3 suited low cards to an 8, etc.

Yeah I’d flat in SS8

Villain's mistake on 3rd was worse than Hero's.

Thanks, this is basically what I think afterward.
Heads up against a high heavy hand is just not really ideal.

Thanks!

Do you mean he kinda made his hand face up?

I would think because he's likely overplaying his hand. There are few starting hands containing an 8 that I'd be thrilled to have in Super Stud 8 or better. The hand quality should run so much higher than in regular S8, that an 8 low is rarely going to win the low, and AA8 or 888 are rarely going to scoop. All are better if the hand plays out headsup, but there is no hand with an 8 where I'd be thrilled that someone with a 2 up reraised me, unless I knew that player was very bad.

I like V's play on 3rd. An 8 is directionally ambiguous and he can cause a lot of mischief with it later. I think you can go ahead and try to cap it on 3rd. I don't know what he thinks of your call. Perhaps he believes you are satisfied now that it is heads up. Maybe he thinks your hand is weaker than it is. Maybe he thinks you're timid.

If you've shown strength, your wheel card 4 on 4th is terrifying. (Plus, you now have a pair!!! Whee!!!) Raise and don't stop.

On 5th, what does V have? (67)876? (A2)876? (88)876? (T9)876? As played, you prolly have a fold, but maybe not. You might want to toddle over to ProPokerTools (or the sim of you choice) and start plugging in some scenarios to get the EQ reads.

This is 8 qualifier, right?

i don't think i'm some mastermind ss8 player or anything, but i've played against a couple archetypes of guys in this game to make me say at least this

- if you think your opponent is clueless, and by clueless i mean the kind of player whose eyes light up when they see pocket 9's in the hole in this situation, then i think the 2-bet has gotta be optimal. there's a game i play in which almost every other player besides me plays big pocket pairs like it's regular 7 card stud hi.

- if your opponent has a clue, re-raising starts to become less appealing because reasonable players start to reason out "uh, i need to play better hands in this game than what i'm used to." most of the time i'm playing against these types of players.

- these players also realize: "uh, i look really stupid open-completing with an 8 here when i have so few playable ones" and it's obvious to everyone else that their actual ranges with an 8 on top are very sharpened. like, kings aren't a real hand here. nor are queens or jacks. 678 isn't a hand unless it's 678sss. MOST of these guys, imo, open limp their rolled ups, complete their aces, and do some combination of completing or flatting with their LL|8sss.

- i'm of the mind that you're gonna be some version of faceup or getting minimum value by open limping, so i'd rather balance aggressively. whether we agree or disagree if it's right or wrong, i'm gonna go ahead and say given imperfect information about our villain, that an "aggressive winning player" just isn't screwing around here. like i imagine we can agree his range is certainly on the stronger to very strong side with the complete? then an amplified version of that once he 3-bets?

so back to the hand, if opponent is competent, then i think raising back on 4th with A4|24 is suicide when he's already shown he loves his hand enough to 3-bet pre, and doesn't give a damn about OP's most likely distribution of hands: 3 wheel, and then obviously to a lesser extent, pocket aces. this isn't a player who's gonna be scared into folding, probably ever, at any point in this hand given his range and pot size. and if we're not pushing equity, and we're not creating fold equity, what's a raise accomplish here?

These 20-40 players are somewhat loose passive. I don't like isolating versus the strong hand. Let them in with paint up or whatever.

If there was a complete and them calls, then definitely raise for value. Even if the raiser 3!s and gets some to fold, you get a lot of dead money in, or build a big pot against inferior hands. Definitely jam the pot if they call a complete with apparently weak holdings.

His 3! HU with an 8 in pointless. What does the have? Rolled up? 678 with a 3-flush? AA8 would not be that good against your rang. He is giving too much information without accomplishing much.