I'm in a private mix group that regularly plays mix tourneys.

bb1k, big bet 2k, we have about 19k.

we are in SB with 2467K, 5 handed utg who is really spazzy and aggro, i don't think he really knows how to value 2-7 hands is my read...raises, folds to me i 3b he caps i call.

i draw 1 he pats, i pull a 9. Check, he bets

tought spot given history with opponent, do we just hold on and call down or draw to better?

Your read is a little too vague. He doesn't know how to value 2-7 hands? Does he overvalue? Undervalue? My instincts are to break, if we catch a 3/5 we have some implied odds here as well, as he is unlikely to have better.

If you ever plan on “holding down” I think you need to instead be aggressive about it and c/r flop, assuming they call, pat and bet down instead. This is dependent on how many bets they have left as well. If they raise your flop c/r, d1 and hope to make a 7 and fold turn unimproved.

Otherwise d1 turn and river try to make your seven.

Again I could be wrong and I’ll say if Death Donkey replies his advice is correct.

But until he gets in and says I’m wrong (which is usually the case ) that’s how I would have played your hand.

Also, how do you know they don’t know how to value their hands, what history can you give from previous hands to verify that statement?

Alright you summoned me

Why? What are you trying to accomplish?

Wait what? I can't really understand under which conditions you want to stop patting the 9, and apparently some of the time you want to fold the turn?

Thanks but I don't think I'm automatically "correct" though I do think you are probably wrong :P

This hand is kinda simple but annoying, we have a really good draw, against anyone reasonable we really shouldn't be ahead very often vs his pat range, so we should just keep drawing. If this guy is so out of line that he routinely pats tens and stuff and we have that strong read then I guess I would pat and play very passively. There is no point in trying to get a spewy player who doesn't know what hands are worth to break something better (and our hand isn't well suited to it anyway).

Btw in a tournament ICM situation you could just call the initial raise pre and play a bit smaller pot

i think noting what a guy values is really important if you are trying to make a read.

like if you're up against people who have JT986 here, that's a lot different from someone who has 97652 or whatever

In this specific case it would matter little though since OP would beat both holdings by patting.

I assume what Kisada means though is if the guy is just a little bit likely to pat a hand that should draw we still do way better by drawing. They have to be really out of line with their pats before we want to give up on such a good draw. Its just such a disaster when he has the rough 8 that he "should" have to give up our equity

ya!

Sure, but I guess it goes both ways. Breaking a better hand when he pats is also a disaster, isn't it?

But anyway, I was just joking with kisada's example as 97652 is just a hair worse than the 97642 that OP got after the first draw.

Yeah, good point. But my thinking would be that if we make a disastrous pat we have 0% equity, if we make a disastrous break we still have like 20%

Good point! I'll take 20% over 0% anytime!