I think I played this too passively. I got caught in a push-pull dilema. I was on the button and unsure about whether to bring people along or push them out.

Dealing 2000 4000 Deuce-to-Seven Triple Draw

CameoClub blinds 1000
Chango blinds 2000
1 B Phat Mack 32900 0 [T] [5] [2] [8] [3]
2 CameoClub 13100 1000 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
3 Chango 28700 2000 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
4 > Alvin 19950 0 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
5 Leslie 12550 0 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
6 Yogi 9800 0 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

Alvin folds
Leslie calls
Yogi folds
It is 2000 to you
Phat Mack calls
CameoClub calls
Chango checks

When it's your turn, you will discard: Td
CameoClub draws 2
Chango draws 4
Leslie draws 2
Phat Mack draws 1
My cards are: [Q] [5] [2] [8] [3]
CameoClub checks
When it's your turn, you will discard: Qc
Chango checks
Leslie checks
It is 0 to you
Phat Mack checks !?
1 B Phat Mack 30900 2000 [Q] [5] [2] [8] [3]
2 > CameoClub 12100 2000 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
3 Chango 28700 2000 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
5 Leslie 10550 2000 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

CameoClub draws 2
Chango draws 2
Leslie draws 1
Phat Mack draws 1
My cards are: [4] [5] [2] [8] [3]
CameoClub checks
Chango bets 4000
Leslie calls
It is 4000 to you

I???

This isn't O8. No pulling. Raise

Raise pre

raise pre bet flop raise turn bet river

I came to the conclusion a long time ago (and by a long time ago, I mean decades) that it was *never* correct to limp pre- in a fixed-limit lowball game. I may have come to the conclusion that it was always wrong to limp in *any* fixed-limit game. It's the worst thing you can do.

I've been going over these hand histories, and have caught myself doing it several times. I'm either way too rusty and out of practice, or some outdated trapping strategy from big-bet has crept into my game, or I am now looking senility straight in the face. Go figure.

It can be correct to limp in, but I agree that it is never correct to open-limp. There may be some GTE exceptions, of course. But if somebody else has already called, then there are occasions where you would just call. You have a hand that is strong enough to play, but now that you have no fold equity, in the sense that raising now will never win you the pot now, you do better calling as well.

If there is only one caller before it is your turn, I could see a good argument for also never just calling, but always raising or folding. With multiple callers, there are definitely spots where you should also just call.

However, your hand was so strong, you were better off raising this time. If instead you had held something like 853KK, then calling might be better than folding or raising.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Predraw is just horrible terrible, limping behind with that hand at letting someone draw 4. However, I don't agree that open limping is always bad in limit, and there are definitely situation to limp behind, particularly in stud games.

Always good to hear from the fossilman--hope you are staying safe in this the plague year. Yeah, I said limp but meant open limp.

In stud, other factors can come into play. There's more information to consider and position is dynamic. I usually look for opportunities to play 3rd street consistently in stud games for disguise, especially split-pot stud games, and a lot of time this means limping 3rd.

thx PM, so far, so good, at staying safe. fingers crossed for us all.

At the GTO level, I would not expect to see very many spots where it is correct to open-limp in any limit game. The main exception that quickly comes to mind is in the small blind.

While it is a generalization, and pretty much all generalizations are less than perfect, if you never open-limp in a limit game, you will almost never be wrong. The number of times you fold when you should have raised, or raised when you should have folded, will vastly outnumber the times you did one or the other, but should have called.

Once we get into GTE considerations, there are many more exceptions.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)