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Draw and Other Poker Discussion of poker games not covered elsewhere (e.g. badugi, draw, triple-draw, pineapple)

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Old 04-16-2018, 05:20 PM   #1
kisada
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TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

I'm pretty new to draw games so I am hoping this is a good exercise in basics.

6h game. My read on BB is he plays solid.

Folded to me. I open
98763 OTB

SB folds

BB calls.

HU now, so If BB:
D2s : what do i toss?
D3s : what do i toss?

any situations where i ever pat?

Thanks!
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:22 AM   #2
8gameisfun
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

I pat them both and bet/fold against most players, basically never break it.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:02 PM   #3
kisada
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

thanks for response.

honestly i'm so new that i'd never really considered taking this line with intention to bet/fold.

definitely gives me something to think about.
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Old Yesterday, 04:01 AM   #4
MacauBound
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

You should almost always draw 1 here to 8763x, whether the BB draws 2 or 3.
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Old Yesterday, 11:25 AM   #5
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

It seems like we should pat because drawing only helps if we make an 8 and opponent makes a 9 and that’s a parlay
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Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM   #6
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada View Post
thanks for response.

honestly i'm so new that i'd never really considered taking this line with intention to bet/fold.

definitely gives me something to think about.
This is basically the worst hand we can have here thus we can easily fold and in theory can’t be exploited by folding absolute bottom of range
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Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM   #7
kisada
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
This is basically the worst hand we can have here thus we can easily fold and in theory can’t be exploited by folding absolute bottom of range
ah interesting i didn't think of it like that.

as i was dealt the hand i kind of got the feeling that it was something that plays fine given the situation but can never withstand any type of heat and doesn't go too far given the 876 part of it.

am i on the right track here?
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Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM   #8
MacauBound
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
It seems like we should pat because drawing only helps if we make an 8 and opponent makes a 9 and that’s a parlay
I haven't seen really good online players pat the 98763 in this spot (but have seen them pat 98654) and I figure it's due to the straight draw considerations. But I haven't done the math in this spot so I could be off.
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Old Yesterday, 07:20 PM   #9
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
I haven't seen really good online players pat the 98763 in this spot (but have seen them pat 98654) and I figure it's due to the straight draw considerations. But I haven't done the math in this spot so I could be off.
You mean you have seen them break this specific hand or its just never come up? Can't recall it from a DD video and I've basically agreed with all of the analysis from those.

But if it was observed I'd ask them what are we really gaining by drawing? Draw is basically to worst 8 so really it only works out for us if we end up making an 8 and our opponent catches one of the three remaining nines?
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Old Yesterday, 08:06 PM   #10
Rob...Chill
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

There are certainly benefits for our overall strategy in not having a range that includes 9876+. Especially when you make a habit of bet folding in these spots.

Other benefits Incldue being able to bet river sometimes when we draw as opposed to checking 100% when pat

Last edited by Rob...Chill; Yesterday at 08:13 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:07 PM   #11
MacauBound
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

I mean that my (error-prone) memory doesn't recall seeing them showdown this hand after patting predraw in this spot.

Asked 3 pros (two well known, the other is not but very tough) I consider top notch and surprisingly, the super lag deuce specialist said he'd always draw, the other well known pro said he'd always pat, and the other said he'd draw if BB took 2 but would prob pat if BB took 3.

So all that research and I still don't know if I'm "right" lol

Once the post draw implications are presented, I agree that habitually b/f the 9876 could be problematic, while having position and making a T/9/8 in a river 1-1 spot does allow us to value bet if we draw.

I can also see how the increase in FE when BB draws 3, could lead to patting pre as the best line.

Last edited by MacauBound; Yesterday at 09:17 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 PM   #12
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
I mean that my (error-prone) memory doesn't recall seeing them showdown this hand after patting predraw in this spot.

Asked 3 pros (two well known, the other is not but very tough) I consider top notch and surprisingly, the super lag deuce specialist said he'd always draw, the other well known pro said he'd always pat, and the other said he'd draw if BB took 2 but would prob pat if BB took 3.

So all that research and I still don't know if I'm "right" lol

Once the post draw implications are presented, I agree that habitually b/f the 9876 could be problematic, while having position and making a T/9/8 in a river 1-1 spot does allow us to value bet if we draw.

I can also see how the increase in FE when BB draws 3, could lead to patting pre as the best line.
FWIW my first inclination was to draw but then asked myself what that would accomplish and don’t think it was very much

I don’t think b/f this hand is problematic as there are only a handful of hands this weak that I would play this way. My pat range is typically pretty strong as I break liberally for implied odds so if someone wants to go after me when I pat initially it will be a losing play for them overall
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Old Today, 01:00 AM   #13
NedSchneebly
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Re: TD 2-7: open 98763 OTB. if HU vs BB D2s/D3s, we draw what?

It could work as hand that you should D1 against aggressive BB who may often try to bluff snow and get you to fold a pat hand from the start. In general I would probably just pat and fold often to check/raises in future draws. If BB D3 it seems like patting is for sure right against all types of opponents.
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