Ace at bottom seems obv but not that hard of a math problem if you want to work it out.

How do people set

A. AAQQT utg

B. AAQQT button with 3 Kings live

C. QQ993 utg

D. QQ993 button with 3 King and 3 Ace live.

Would it be correct

A. Nothing / T / AAQQ

B. QQ / nothing / AAT or would QQ / AA / T be better or are both to aggro.

C. Nothing / 3 / QQ99

D. QQ / nothing / 993

Interested to hear people's thoughts. Seems like cases could be made for everything.

i pretty much always put
T/AA/QQ

How would you set:
1) oop K Q 8 7 3?
2) A J T 6 6 vs:
-
5s
JhTd9d8s

Thoughts on:
1)
Q
K3
8 7

2)
--
6 6
A J T

Or go for heart bottom since he's prob 84% to straight? E.g.:

6
J T
A 6

JT/66/A

That's JT up top right? Interesting setup, can you explain your rationale?

don't think so.

no thats not JT up top.

but its close between that n:

66T/A/J

I'd set:

Q
K
873

and gun for 2pair in the back and FL.

The second hand I'd set:

J
A
66T

which gives possible FL/high pair and boat chance.

rbk, and others,

i always see you put setups which are very unlikely to not foul, because if you put something like Q/A/448 and then you get a Q early on i guess you're just gonna stick it uptop and hope to get an A and two pair on bottom.

Is this because in fantasyland you get so many points that you take the risk of fouling? your setups seem kinda suicidal to me as a noob non fantasyland player.

See the two examples above, i'd definitely put AJT66

/
66
AJT

, and i m playnig a lot with a top european cash grinder who pretty much always puts it down my way. (we 're playing no fantasyland, crisscross for the most)

The thing with OFC is, the more aggressive you play, the more often you will foul but the more frequent you will score big hands. The variance is a lot higher. It's down to your own personal play style.

Some players like to play safe so that they win in the long run by scoring from fouling players and minimising their own variance. You sound like such a player. This is a perfectly acceptable way to play.

Others see more value is gunning for big royalty hands. Obviously with FL in play they will shoot for it with every chance.

Even without FL, pairs such as tens and higher up top are worth as much (and more) than flushes and boats in the back and, if you play intelligently and know when to take the gamble, are often easier to hit.

A set such as x/66/AJT gives you a high 2pair chance or a broadway draw in the back, but no freedom to gain royalties in the top hand, and typically you'll just be throwing dead and unsatisfactory cards there.

Setting it J/A/66T gives you the chance to pair jacks to kings up top (6-8pts) an all you need is to hit the ace and a 6 or T to do so. The other advantage is that along with this high royalty (or FL draw, if applicable) up top you are also drawing to a boat in the bottom. That could be another 6pts.

By setting it safer yes, you are minimising your chances of fouling, but you are also closing the chances of scoring big royalty hands that are not any less likely to hit than the safe set.

Apologies for the long post.

Great post, Sev. TY.

Also I'd like to add that with your x/66/AJT set you are illegal off the bat and if you whiff all 8 draws to hit an A,J or T will foul

The J/A/66T set is legal and if whiffed will not foul.

what if your first draw is a J? you put it up top?

very much this.

This is where you assess the situation and decide to gamble or not. If I'm in position and all aces are fully live then undoubtably yes.
However if I'm 4 draws in then I might play safe and put it elsewhere.

It also very much depends on your opponent. A super aggressive opponent with a risky set would make me possibly opt to place the J somewhere else and just aim to keep my hand legal whilst keeping my draws open (I could still hit an ace and a jack down the line).

Also don't forget that it's not just an ace you need to play the jacks; running queens/kings or even a lower two pair than tens up will do but these are far less frequent to hit, as you can imagine!

I believe that OFC is a game of calculated risk and reward.

Cross posting from mtt ofc thread

Thoughts?

Other viable play is

-
AT
66J

giving you the option of jacks up on bottom/tens up in the middle or just pair the A if that comes early and you're live on the bottom. If not you can put the 2nd ace up top and safely win that with A9 or lower. Or if things go well you have the top wide open for KQ.

You don't put an A on bottom to set a hand....and playing safe will get you murdered over the long run

that is interesting. I guess you have to lay out the rules just incase that does happen. I would let him get 15 cards in his 2nd FL hand also for his reward for getting AA up top to get to FL. It's a continuation of the previous hand.

What do you guys think is the average EV of hitting Candyland? 10 pts?

I haven't read the hole thread so not sure if you covered this but can someone please tell me what is standard if someone does not say they are staying in fantasy land

when they actually do qualify obv

it doesn't affect the action but its just a courteous thing to announce you are staying.

thanks