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Old 07-17-2017, 05:48 PM   #1
Pascalkid
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Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

First of all I'm not experienced in this game. This was in the 8-game MicroMillion this evening.
My reason for snowing in this hand was because:
1. His draw actions, he drew 1 at first draw and after that round drew 2.
2. Knowing the 4 and 8 are dead, which might be cards he would have catched.

What do you think of snowing in this spot at all and what do you think about my line/actions in this hand?
What hands should villain have against my range to (correctly) call at the end ?

PokerStars Hand #173168543528: Tournament #1965249529, $5.00+$0.50 USD 8-Game (Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit) - Level XXXIII (2000/4000) - 2017/07/17 23:28:27 CET [2017/07/17 17:28:27 ET]
Table '1965249529 470' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Ca$haholic (18580 in chips)
Seat 2: pikhaak (31677 in chips)
Seat 3: Warzycha (45700 in chips)
Seat 4: tomspillane (15926 in chips)
Seat 5: Thricer1 (65066 in chips)
Seat 6: Abacus7777 (21500 in chips)
Warzycha: posts small blind 1000
tomspillane: posts big blind 2000
** DEALING HANDS **
Dealt to pikhaak [7c 4h 3h 8h 4c]
Thricer1: raises 2000 to 4000
Abacus7777: folds
Ca$haholic: folds
pikhaak: calls 4000
Warzycha: folds
tomspillane: calls 2000
** FIRST DRAW **
tomspillane: discards 3 cards
Thricer1: discards 1 card
pikhaak: discards 1 card [4h]
Dealt to pikhaak [7c 3h 8h 4c] [8c]
tomspillane: checks
Thricer1: checks
pikhaak: bets 2000
tomspillane: folds
Thricer1: calls 2000
** SECOND DRAW **
Thricer1: discards 2 cards
pikhaak: stands pat on [7c 3h 8h 4c 8c]
Thricer1: checks
pikhaak: bets 4000
Thricer1: calls 4000
** THIRD DRAW **
Thricer1: discards 2 cards
pikhaak: stands pat on [7c 3h 8h 4c 8c]
Thricer1: checks
pikhaak: bets 4000
Thricer1:
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:33 PM   #2
zoogenhiem
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

As a newb myself, looks good to me.
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:24 AM   #3
RolldUpTrips
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

First of all you're drawing 1 so you need to be 3-betting this hand if you're going to play it. It's an 87-draw with no 2 so I would tend to fold, but 3-betting isn't terrible in position with an extra 4.

As played, your draw is weak and he switched to 2 for some reason, but I would nonetheless draw at least 1 more time here. Any decent player (your opponent isn't, so IDK...) will recognize your hand as weak and apply pressure and also call down liberally if you pat since it's illogical for your hand to be too weak to 3bet while simultaneously strong enough to bet the river.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:41 AM   #4
Pascalkid
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
First of all you're drawing 1 so you need to be 3-betting this hand if you're going to play it. It's an 87-draw with no 2 so I would tend to fold, but 3-betting isn't terrible in position with an extra 4.

As played, your draw is weak and he switched to 2 for some reason, but I would nonetheless draw at least 1 more time here. Any decent player (your opponent isn't, so IDK...) will recognize your hand as weak and apply pressure and also call down liberally if you pat since it's illogical for your hand to be too weak to 3bet while simultaneously strong enough to bet the river.
Thanks a lot for this clear response. I see now that i should have made a 3-bet if i decide to go for a snow after a 1 draw. Clear mistake here as my hand doesn't seem logical in the end.

Still I'm curious what kind of hands villain could call at the end with. I will not give away a too big of a spoiler, but villain did call and i was quite surprised by his revealed hand....
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:37 AM   #5
GrimIsCool
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
First of all you're drawing 1 so you need to be 3-betting this hand if you're going to play it. It's an 87-draw with no 2 so I would tend to fold, but 3-betting isn't terrible in position with an extra 4.

As played, your draw is weak and he switched to 2 for some reason, but I would nonetheless draw at least 1 more time here. Any decent player (your opponent isn't, so IDK...) will recognize your hand as weak and apply pressure and also call down liberally if you pat since it's illogical for your hand to be too weak to 3bet while simultaneously strong enough to bet the river.
Sums it up perfectly I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascalkid View Post
Still I'm curious what kind of hands villain could call at the end with. I will not give away a too big of a spoiler, but villain did call and i was quite surprised by his revealed hand....
It's the $5 MicroMillions so I doubt the villain is thinking on a high level. But, using RolldUpTrips' analysis above it's fair to reason a call down with any 8 or some stronger 9s.
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:31 PM   #6
OtherMoachist
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

The line of calling pre-draw and drawing one, then standing pat screams a weak 8-7 at best. _If_ I play a one card draw, I am raising, three betting and capping pre-draw. Play all one card draws pre-draw the same if you plan to play them. If I have position on the raiser here, I am 3 betting and drawing one for sure. If I am UTG, and the game is full, I am likely folding this hand a fair amount of time. Position is everything in this game.

As a general rule, calling (verse raising) any bet pre-draw when more than just heads up, is something you should do very very very few times.
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:53 PM   #7
MacauBound
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascalkid View Post
Thanks a lot for this clear response. I see now that i should have made a 3-bet if i decide to go for a snow after a 1 draw. Clear mistake here as my hand doesn't seem logical in the end.

Still I'm curious what kind of hands villain could call at the end with. I will not give away a too big of a spoiler, but villain did call and i was quite surprised by his revealed hand....
3 betting pre w a 1 cd in position is unrelated to the snow. You re-raise all playable 1cd pre bc 1) you are ahead of their range and 2) to 'protect' your range, i.e. to stay balanced. For ex. by playing 34478 and 2347x the same way pre, villain can't put you on a capped range that he can exploit once you pat.

Based on villain's play, I wouldn't be too shocked to see any hand at showdown lol
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:07 AM   #8
Smarty 2.0
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

Lol at nits folding this hand pre. I would draw 1 on D2.
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:14 AM   #9
DeathDonkey
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

when a guy draws 2 on the end he pays off light (not really that bad actually), and since your line looks super bluffy he should probably call on the end with like pair of 4s or better
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:17 AM   #10
GrimIsCool
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
when a guy draws 2 on the end he pays off light (not really that bad actually), and since your line looks super bluffy he should probably call on the end with like pair of 4s or better
Wow down to a pair of 4s. Is this because most bluffs here will be with paired wheel cards?
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:40 PM   #11
Pascalkid
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimIsCool View Post
Wow down to a pair of 4s. Is this because most bluffs here will be with paired wheel cards?
He should really call that much of a time? Haha didn't know I was bluffing so badly, but I do see the big mistakes in my hand.

He called down with Q high at the end btw. So you guys think that is a correct call?
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:30 PM   #12
chillrob
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

Even if he suspected you could show up with a bluff, isn't it still really bad to call twice drawing 2 vs a pat?

What was his final complete hand?
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:28 AM   #13
MacauBound
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimIsCool View Post
Wow down to a pair of 4s. Is this because most bluffs here will be with paired wheel cards?
not really, it's bc most snows are straights, 2 pr, trips, or top pr when top pr is a 7 or 8. 44xxx beats all those hands.

[QUOTE=chillrob;52579464]Even if he suspected you could show up with a bluff, isn't it still really bad to call twice drawing 2 vs a pat?

calling and drawing 2 twice against a pat hand, including the final draw (as opposed to if they were the first two draws), is lighting money on fire in a vacuum. If the line is snowy/bluffy, as DD alluded to, that can change things. But in this HH, I'm never drawing 2 on the 3rd draw against a pat hand. I don't think hero's line looks as bluffy/snowy as DD thinks, bc at the stakes being played there will be some odd lines taken that don't necessarily indicate anything more than random button clicking.
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:21 AM   #14
DarkMagus
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Re: Line check for snowing | 2-7 td

at a $5, drawing 1, 2, 2 is either 50% misclick, 49% button mashing or 1% having an actual strategic reason to

im not super good at 72, but i think pre is a fold against a competent villain who should be playing pretty tight utg. might be playable against bad/loose players, for a 3b of course

i really see no reason to go for the snow here. your 8743 is a decent favorite against any 2-card draw, and on top of that you are gonna lose extra bets when your snow doesn't work. against someone drawing 1 then 2 i don't think you want to start getting overly tricky
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