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Old 12-04-2010, 04:15 PM   #1
donger
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Let's talk draw poker notes

I've been playing a little 2-7 triple draw lately, and was curious what everyone's shorthand is for note taking? I had been taking really verbose notes for lack of a system and it was really tilting.
Here's a sample of what I've come up with lately:

TD27:
BB v button: 2-1 2-1 then CR/fold !
draws really rough - 2 @ 457 def BB etc

Anybody have any other handy shorthand you guys are using or concepts/reads you feel are important for 2-7TD notes?
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:26 PM   #2
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

i use something akin to

#x a:b:c, something exploitable or noteworthy

ex

2x 1:2:1, no bet card ahead ip
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:06 PM   #3
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

I always put the stakes, for ex:

2/4 TD: UTG draw 2 to 467--open btn, draw 3 often--

I like the colon and star suggestion someone made on this board for drawing notes:

-- 1:2* raise turn draw 1 x 3. (Where * = villains position_
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:22 PM   #4
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Date, stakes, relative positions, agro/passive, tight/loose, list mistakes player made or moves they are capable of making.
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:42 PM   #5
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

My note taking could be refined. Ex: "24679 draw 1 pat hu after first i draw 2, 1 then he chks turn back POT CONTROL DONK"
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:21 PM   #6
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enon View Post
My note taking could be refined. Ex: "24679 draw 1 pat hu after first i draw 2, 1 then he chks turn back POT CONTROL DONK"
Tom Dwan?
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:40 PM   #7
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

gus would be, "capped pre, drew 1 to 4567 and pat Ten on 1st draw"
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:43 PM   #8
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

"spazzbets when drawing to nr1-4"

"creative thinker" - On a player that patted TT after first draw and betprayed all the way to showdown.

"vbets ****ing 35678 after third draw"

"raise 2X every position pre-draw"

"bluff 3bets after first draw and folds half the time to cap"

Yeah, time & date also matters, some of the players mentioned play better in the mornings and worse at evenings vice versa.

Last edited by helldonk; 01-18-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:04 AM   #9
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

87653 is a standard vbet otr in many spots dude^^^
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:38 PM   #10
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

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Originally Posted by Journeyman_1 View Post
87653 is a standard vbet otr in many spots dude^^^
It was in a three or fourwaypot where the rest was drawing one card on third draw I see no point on betting rags like this after that. But i see your point.
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:02 PM   #11
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

you may need more specific notes then, because that note in a vacuum is redundant.
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:07 PM   #12
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by helldonk View Post
It was in a three or fourwaypot where the rest was drawing one card on third draw I see no point on betting rags like this after that. But i see your point.
? Ive valuebet a J here and been called by way worse. Betting an 8 seems standard since you get called by so much junk in a big pot on the river.
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:10 PM   #13
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Something I like to track in draw high is stats on when they pat and showdown. Something like "2-2" means that they had it 2 out of 2 times, "1-3" indicates they had it 1 time and bluffed twice. I like to have a sense on who is capable of pat bluffing and who probably isn't.

I'll keep similar notes when people bluff with a pair/worse in either single draw or triple draw lowball, for the same reason.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:14 PM   #14
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

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Originally Posted by Tom Bayes View Post
Something I like to track in draw high is stats on when they pat and showdown. Something like "2-2" means that they had it 2 out of 2 times, "1-3" indicates they had it 1 time and bluffed twice. I like to have a sense on who is capable of pat bluffing and who probably isn't.

I'll keep similar notes when people bluff with a pair/worse in either single draw or triple draw lowball, for the same reason.
Actually, I think you dont need a statistic for this at all. If you see it once you know the player is capable. Its better to make a note of the situation if you want to differanciate. What is much more interesting to keep a sort of a statistic on is how often a player drawing 1 after 3-betting(or even 4-betting) have a draw. I have not made notes on statistics here but its something I feel like I should do sometimes(but I never bother). I have so much experience with certain types of players I only need 1-2 showdowns to know how they play and probably how to exploit them also. I make much less notes now in draw high then I used to when I mostly played fixed limit.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:32 PM   #15
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

So I finally got to the point in my 2-7 education to start thinking about organizing and standardizing my note taking. But the more I thought about it the more complicated it got, I came up with short hand for all these situations/actions, then realized how complicated situations could be, and added more, etc.

Then I took a step back and asked myself, what would I actually use while making playing decisions. I'm not sure of everything, but right now I'm thinking I should track only actionable data that I can use to tweak my lines vs. specific villains. This is what I've come up with so far, any comments on how useful they are, which is most useful, and other specific common spots to note would be great.

1) River value betting ranges headsup and 3 way.

2) River bluff catching ranges, headsup only, vs. pat or when both take 1.

3) River bluff ranges, i.e. how low will they bluff, a Queen, or a Jack? This one seems a little less clear-cut, but I'm hoping it should give me an rough idea when combined with #1 of their bluffs to bets ratio.

4) Whether they bet or raise out of position unimproved.

5) Whather they bet or raise in position unimproved.

6) Whether I catch them snowing and the pattern (2-1-Pat, etc)

7) Turn Pat range, both headsup and three way.
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:21 PM   #16
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

shorthand for draws rough/pats light is "Gus"
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:31 AM   #17
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat View Post

1) River value betting ranges headsup and 3 way.

2) River bluff catching ranges, headsup only, vs. pat or when both take 1.

3) River bluff ranges, i.e. how low will they bluff, a Queen, or a Jack? This one seems a little less clear-cut, but I'm hoping it should give me an rough idea when combined with #1 of their bluffs to bets ratio.

4) Whether they bet or raise out of position unimproved.

5) Whather they bet or raise in position unimproved.

6) Whether I catch them snowing and the pattern (2-1-Pat, etc)

7) Turn Pat range, both headsup and three way.
I think this is making your notes way too complicated, I also think having too specific notes can be counter-productive if you are playing a villain that is either changing their play or improving their game.

I like to categorise opponents into 4 player-types and have a colour each. I make specific notes every time villain either confirms or acts opposite to the stereotypical play of their category and change it if necessary.

Generally I act according to the colour-codes I put on people, and if I have a tough decision, I peak at the specific notes for help.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:40 AM   #18
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by besmod View Post
I think this is making your notes way too complicated, I also think having too specific notes can be counter-productive if you are playing a villain that is either changing their play or improving their game.

I like to categorise opponents into 4 player-types and have a colour each. I make specific notes every time villain either confirms or acts opposite to the stereotypical play of their category and change it if necessary.

Generally I act according to the colour-codes I put on people, and if I have a tough decision, I peak at the specific notes for help.
Can you go more into how you catagorize and seperate the player types?
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:06 PM   #19
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Sure I can elaborate a bit. For TD and Badugi I have these general stereotypes;

Blue - passive, limps a lot, overvalues rough pat hands, draws rough
Green - aggro, check-raises often, makes bad bluffs/snows, caps with nut draws
Yellow - easy to read, standard play, takes same line each time
Red - thinking player, adjusts to my play, switches gears

After playing 50+ hands at a table I usually have everyone colour-coded, and then occasionally make notes on specific things.

I am sure there is merit to having a lot of detailed notes on players, maybe I will get to that point one day. But at the micro stakes I play at, most people are probably learning as fast as I am and I am better off just generalizing and changing colour codes to fit how they are playing.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:34 AM   #20
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by besmod View Post
Sure I can elaborate a bit. For TD and Badugi I have these general stereotypes;

Blue - passive, limps a lot, overvalues rough pat hands, draws rough
Green - aggro, check-raises often, makes bad bluffs/snows, caps with nut draws
Yellow - easy to read, standard play, takes same line each time
Red - thinking player, adjusts to my play, switches gears

After playing 50+ hands at a table I usually have everyone colour-coded, and then occasionally make notes on specific things.

I am sure there is merit to having a lot of detailed notes on players, maybe I will get to that point one day. But at the micro stakes I play at, most people are probably learning as fast as I am and I am better off just generalizing and changing colour codes to fit how they are playing.
This is way better than what I do. Thanks!
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:20 AM   #21
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

excellent contributions, thanks.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:44 PM   #22
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat View Post
So I finally got to the point in my 2-7 education to start thinking about organizing and standardizing my note taking. But the more I thought about it the more complicated it got, I came up with short hand for all these situations/actions, then realized how complicated situations could be, and added more, etc.

Then I took a step back and asked myself, what would I actually use while making playing decisions. I'm not sure of everything, but right now I'm thinking I should track only actionable data that I can use to tweak my lines vs. specific villains. This is what I've come up with so far, any comments on how useful they are, which is most useful, and other specific common spots to note would be great.

1) River value betting ranges headsup and 3 way.

2) River bluff catching ranges, headsup only, vs. pat or when both take 1.

3) River bluff ranges, i.e. how low will they bluff, a Queen, or a Jack? This one seems a little less clear-cut, but I'm hoping it should give me an rough idea when combined with #1 of their bluffs to bets ratio.

4) Whether they bet or raise out of position unimproved.

5) Whather they bet or raise in position unimproved.

6) Whether I catch them snowing and the pattern (2-1-Pat, etc)

7) Turn Pat range, both headsup and three way.
I like this. Can you give an example of what notes would look like using this system?
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:58 PM   #23
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomness28 View Post
I like this. Can you give an example of what notes would look like using this system?
Here are a few examples of notes I take in these sections:

1)
checked 97 IP in 1:1:1
led T in 1:1
just called #8 in 1:1
led #19 in 1:0 after 1:2 (I usually like to note at least one street of how the situation evolved to someone going pat and in spots like 1:2 I don't need to say the turn action because I know it went bet raise call or I'd have another note about something else)
etc...
2)
c/c 44 in 1:1
3)
Yeah, this for me is just tied up with #1. I just make lots of notes about 1:1 OOP and IP and 0:1/1:0 spots.
4)/5)
bet 1:1 UI otf
bet 3:2 UI
6)
I usually just note if they are capable of snowing first before trying to discern any sort of pattern (I just assume that they snow in regularish snow spots and would note if it was a very bizarre one). And in a similar vein I note if they pretty much never snowcatch which I guess is related to 2).
7)
I don't do this so much, but regarding turn play I try to note if they run breaking plays and things of that nature.

Edit: I also note things like 3b 2cds pre and if they are doing it with all their 2cds or anything else polarizing, if they raise to iso, etc..

Last edited by Faluzure; 03-10-2011 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:29 PM   #24
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

thanks... that is convenient to be able to quickly refer to a specific number for a close decision rather than try to read through a disorganized mish mash.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:06 AM   #25
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Re: Let's talk draw poker notes

Bump.

Threads older than February 1 are to be automatically archived next month in preparation for an upgrade. I'm bumping all 2+2 threads cited in our FAQ that are not already archived so that they will not be lost to us.

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