Drawmaha was introduced to the mixed game community this summer at the rio/wsop where the game was frequently played in the 20/40 mixed game.

Since then it has become one of the more popular games in the Vegas low limit mix game community. I personally love the game and am rooting for its growth.

Rules.

Dealt like 5 card Omaha with 1 draw round immediately prior to the turn card. Half the pot goes to the best Omaha Hi hand and other half goes to best 5cd hand (best poker hand made from the 5 cards in each players' hands).

In the low limit Vegas games we deal the game 6 handed and limit draws to 3 cards each. We've also starting playing "2-7 Drawmaha" and to a lesser extent "Badugi Drawmaha". "A-5 Drawmaha" also seems reasonable but we haven't played it yet.

Drawmaha is a great limit game but it also turns out to be a great pot limit game.

I recommend trying some of these variants in your next home games. It seems likely that Drawmaha will become a staple of mixed games just like Badeucey and Badacey.

If you don't have a home game to try the games out in, message me next time you're planning a Vegas trip and I'll help organize a game.



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There's already been a number of threads in this subforum on this game, but no good strategy discussion. Sounds like a very fun game from what I've heard, although haven't been able to try it myself yet. My home game wouldn't go for it.

Just so I understand there is only one draw round on the flop?

So if you start with a four flush you are hoping to draw a flush on the draw and hit three more on the board? Seems unlikely I guess, but you could win the Omaha board in other ways.

If you hold two pair you could hit a set in Omaha and win the 5cd draw side with that hand.

Sounds fun, it's a shame they didn't play that when I was in the game over the summer

I really need to play this....

Mahalo, hisashiburi in the mix game forum.

Can be played with one or three draws. I've only played it pot limit, but assume it would be a fun limit game.

Do a search under dramaha and sviten.

Sviten may have an optional rule where if you draw one card, you can get it dealt face up. If you take a face up card, you can reject it and get another card face down.

The draw occurs prior to/with the turn so the flop often influences how many and which cards you draw.

I recommend playing the game 6max with a cap of 3 cards on the draw otherwise you can run out of cards in some situations.


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I've played a little of this.

When I was out of a hand, my neighbor showed me his cards while playing. After a flop of 5,2,2, my neighbor folded his X,X,X,X,5 for one bet when last to act.

After he folded, I asked him "Could you have called there and drawn four cards?"

Seems reasonable enough with that board closing the action. Especially if the pot was raised preflop and there is no flush draw on board

Fives full of deuces is probably a winner. Deuces full of fives seems iffy.
Probability of Hero getting another at least one five in a four card draw is
P=1-C(42,4)/C(44,4)=
P=1-40*39/44/43=0.1755
or roughly 82:18
close to 81:18
or roughly 9:2 against.

You probably can't do that math in your head while playing at a live table. But you might be able to get close enough with an approximation. After the flop, you can't see 44 cards, enough to make 11 four card draws. Only 2 of those four card draws could have a five (because there are only two fives left in the stub). Thus 2/11 is the approximate probability of catching a five in a four card draw and 9 to 2 against are the approximate odds.

I'd tend to put the bettor on a deuce for his bet. (He also might be betting a high pair or two pairs, or bluffing with air). He might make a full house (probably doesn't already have one).

Interesting hand.

Buzz

I'm not sure what you did above but I think the odds may be slighty worse than that. Basically it's like you are trying to flop a set with pocket fives but you get a four card flop instead of three. Seems like it would be more like 6 to 1.

And you are only going for half the pot.

So I think the pot needs to be really big, there is no two flush, and you close the action.

Why are you mentioning a flush draw?

If you draw another 5, you'll have 55 in your and and full house to beat any flush.

It's probably better to have a flush draw on the flop.

That's too bad. I had hoped to make my reasoning clear.

After the flop, how many cards are you looking at? (The answer is 8... the three from the flop plus the five in your hand).

So after the flop, how many cards are in the group of unseen cards? The answer is 44 (from 52-3-5=44).

And how many of these 44 cards can be fives? (The answer is 2, since you're looking at one five in your hand and one five on the board).

And how many groups of 4 cards can be made from 44 cards? (The answer is 11, since 44/4=11).

And how many of these 11 groups of 4 cards each can contain a five? (2 is the answer).

• digression: Maybe you're thinking one of the 11 groups of four cards can contain two fives, which is correct, and which slightly decreases the chances two of the eleven groups of four cards contain a five.
  Actually there are 135751 possible ways to choose 4 cards from 44 cards.
  861 of these contain both missing fives.
  22960 contain exactly one five.
  111930 contain no fives.
  So 23821+861=24682 of these 135751 possible ways to choose 4 cards contain either one five or two fives.
  Thus it's actually 111930 to 22960, or 4.875 to 1, close to 5 to 1, that four drawn cards won't contain at least one five.
  

And, continuing my approximation method, if two of the eleven of these groups of 4 cards contain a five, how many of the eleven of these groups don't contain a five? (9 is the answer)

24682/135751= a probability of 0.181818 that a chosen group of 4 cards will contain at least one five.
And the corresponding probability a chosen group of 4 cards will NOT contain at least one five must be 0.818182

So it's approximately 0.818181 to 0.181818 or 9 to 2 against at least one five in any group of four cards we choose. (divide each of those decimal fractions by 9 to clearly see the 9 to 2 ratio).

You're right. The odds are 4.875 to 1, not the 4.50 to 1 I got with my approximation.
Correct.

I think the odds of Hero catching at least one five are 4.875 to 1. (But there are some other ways Hero can win... for example maybe by catching a deuce).

Good point.

Buzz

Whoops yup, my bad

Thanks buzz, I did not account for the fact that you had information regarding the four discards and the flop. So the odds are better.

But also keep in mind that when you draw 4, you're also drawing live for the other half the pot. Although I'd be curious to know just how live you're drawing. Depending on the preflop action, you're probably good with 2 pair for the 5c draw hand, and trips would be great. So what's your odds of making a 5, 2, or 2 pair or better?

2 small pair is pretty marginal in 5cd, would hate to be playing it for half the pot if we have no omaha hand.

I am so confused, but this game sounds like it could be hilariously fun.

Yeah it's why I would ignore the possibility. Could easily get "lucky" and simply make a payoff hand

Bit of a zombie thread, but I wanted to drop a mention here in case any of the folks interested in strategy for this game are still following this post. I just released a book on this very game. I can't link to a sales venue on 2+2, but I just made a new-book announcement in the Books and Publications forum: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...onahue-1701791.

this and pair-of-6s qualifier archie were the only interesting games i played this summer. and hi-lo regular was interesting too, i guess.

i'm actually less of a fan of the idea of drawmaha as a 5 card concept, cuz it invariably gets into the Big-O zone of nutpeddling to fleece fishes.

the game i thought had the most potential as an action game was 4 card badugiha, which i played something like 6 years ago at a 2p2 party at aria. never had the opportunity to play it since, but it made that good of an impression.

The Omaha side of the game, yeah, it's about making the nuts (with redraws, ideally), and that's why I'm not a huge fan of 5-card Omaha high on its own. But adding a split-pot element makes it a very different game, especially when the other half is a game like Five Card Draw, where the concept of the nuts is nearly meaningless.

I can't say I've ever played Badugiha, but it sounds awkward because all the things that are an advantage in Omaha cripple you in Badugi. I've always wondered how Dramaha would play with the Draw side being California lowball, though. Lots more potential for strong lows that are also versatile Omaha hands that way.

i think california lowball drawmaha gets into stud hi/lo no qualifier where the ace is just insanely powerful. i played 2-7 drawmaha which was kinda interesting but invariably just leads into everyone trying to draw to 2-7 hands that back into flushes or straights.

if its 5 card i think high hand is prob the healthiest game cuz the draws are relatively balanced and good handreaders could prob make some good deductions that inexperienced players couldnt.

badugiha sounds awkward, but we actually played it with multiple draws. i want to say one draw right before the turn and one draw right before the river. it makes for some very creative draw opportunities and based on how everyone is drawing there are fun deductions in who is going for badugi and who is going for high and who has a sweat at both. the drawing situations were hilarious, but it helped that when we played this game it was mandatory cap preflop by everyone.

i would love to get this game going sometime next summer, depends on whatever spencer wants since he's the only person who actively tried to get the game going last summer.

Jim, I purchased your book. I read the beginning and quickly skimmed the rest and it looks good. Think you articulated some key core principles very well. Won’t probably read the remainder until I head out to Vegas for WSOP though.

Anyhow, just for clarification you have a flush if say you have only one diamond in your hand and four on the board?

It could possibly be called Drawholdem instead since you can use 1 or 2 cards.

For standard drawmaha:

You always need to use 2 cards from your hand for the omaha hi half of the pot. So no 1+4 flush.

It's possible I misinterpreted something written in the book. That would make it more like Omaha obv