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Draw and Other Poker Discussion of poker games not covered elsewhere (e.g. badugi, draw, triple-draw, pineapple)

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Old 04-06-2017, 02:57 PM   #1
zoogenhiem
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Badugi Hand

Badugi tournament, final 2 tables, in the money, I start the hand with avg stack ~5BB, both opponents have similar.

HJ limps, I raise with 952 3-card on the button, BB calls, HJ calls.
First draw: 1/1/1, I make 9852 badugi
Checks to me, I bet, both call
Second draw: 1/1/0
Checks to me, I bet, both call
Third draw: 1/1/0
Checks to me

Questions:
1) Is the raise preflop too loose? Should I limp behind or even muck it predraw? I folded 964 3-card on the button vs a LJ limp earlier; what should I have done with that one?
2) Can I bet for value on the river? Would I have to fold to any raise if I bet?
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Old 04-06-2017, 05:03 PM   #2
electrical
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Re: Badugi Hand

Pre you can limp and draw two, but if you're going to draw 1 I'd raise hoping to get HU because then you can win the pot before showdown vs a D2 more often. Don't get me wrong, a 3-card Nine sucks but if he folds the turn he won't know that's what you started with.

I would bet the river for value. Your hand could easily be a weak badugi looking to check behind so it's unlikely anybody is sandbagging a strong hand, but you could get paid off by a lot of real crap.
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:46 AM   #3
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Re: Badugi Hand

I think preflop is just awful particularly with your stack size. As played I'd probably check because of your stack size.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:21 AM   #4
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Re: Badugi Hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
I think preflop is just awful particularly with your stack size. As played I'd probably check because of your stack size.
What do you suggest for predraw? Call/draw 1? Call/draw 2? Fold? What's the worst hand 3-card hand I can raise button with here?
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:48 PM   #5
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Re: Badugi Hand

I'd fold pre. The thing is with a 5 BB stack you really need to win the next hand you play so I would overlimp a lot of hands I would raise in a cash game. And fold a few I would play in a cash game too.
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Old 04-07-2017, 07:21 PM   #6
zoogenhiem
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Re: Badugi Hand

Thanks for the help everybody. On the river I decided to check back and I won but would've been paid by a J852 most likely.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:49 PM   #7
electrical
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Re: Badugi Hand

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Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
I'd fold pre. The thing is with a 5 BB stack you really need to win the next hand you play so I would overlimp a lot of hands I would raise in a cash game. And fold a few I would play in a cash game too.
Folding 52, or any non-A 2-card wheel is fine here, though I think not playing A2, A3, 23 would be a mistake in a limped pot.

The argument for raising and playing as D1 is that everybody is short and you'll win the turn an awful lot because it's hard to improve hands in this game. I mean, you're pretty much bluffing with some backup equity with 952 but when another critically-short stack limps ahead of you, that seems like a decent spot for it.

But yeah, you can also just not get involved.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:11 PM   #8
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Re: Badugi Hand

What's the line though for 3 card hands on the button here? 852? 82A? ... etc
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Old 04-08-2017, 12:07 PM   #9
electrical
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Re: Badugi Hand

Folded to me at a table where people make folding mistakes I would open any ww, some hands like two-suited AA66, 3-card 976 (need to think about this part of the range more but sims suggest this) or better and a small number of low flush hands. At a tougher table, especially if the more aware players are short and likely want to get in and realize their equity, I would open Aw, 23 and 3-card Eights, and I would be less likely to steal.

Limped to me I would call with Aw, 23 and raise any 3-card 8 or better. I would fold non-wheel 2-card hands and usually three-card Nines, though OP's precise hand is one that could be played as a raise D1, a call D2 or a fold.

Calling and drawing one is usually bad because your range is strictly bad 3-card hands. Against opponents who can make use of this info you are less able to bluff and you become bluffable yourself.

I say it's usually bad, but if you have a tricky image, say you have previously called in position with 123 and made a move with it later in the hand or something, then you can rep a stronger range to the aware players, and occasionally you can get a free card, but lacking specific info it's bad.

The free card isn't even that much of a bargain. When you get a free one your opponents usually have really bad hands, and by taking the free one you're giving a hand like 45 infinite odds to outdraw your weak 3-card hand.

It is hard to do anything unambiguously good with a hand like 952, which is why you can just bail on it.
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:24 PM   #10
zoogenhiem
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Re: Badugi Hand

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply!
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:55 PM   #11
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Re: Badugi Hand

Twice today playing 8 handed I had Qdugis with no real redraw utg+1/+2 vs 1 or 2 limpers and folded. Also folded KQdugi in sb vs CO open. Too nitty? Let's assume no ICM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:18 PM   #12
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Re: Badugi Hand

I don't think you can ever bet/fold the river here. Seems like k>b/c>b/f in this case.
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