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Old 05-12-2018, 02:13 PM   #1
KaiserChefs
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Archie Question

I am trying to learn Archie before my next trip out to Vegas in June. I stumbled upon a site with some strategy articles called Counting Out. (I believe someone from this site is the owner of that site.)

Anyhow, my question is on the following passage. How is it possible that a made low vs. a pair of 9’s would only have 46% equity? Even if the 9’s draw 3 and the low stands pat, it will be impossible for the 9’s to ever qualify for a low. Am I missing something?

“Archie is a draw game so it doesn’t work that way. For example, when you have the 2♥ 3♥ 4♣ 6♠ and draw the 7♣ you must decide whether or not to keep the low or break it continue to try and improve. As far as low hands it is way better than average in that it has four to a very good low along with a gut shot straight draw. However, heads-up against a measly pair of nines it only has around 46% equity assuming it keeps any qualifying low. Many players are so used to targeting the low hands in high/low split that they overlook all of this and thus overvalue these hands.”
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:27 PM   #2
electrical
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Re: Archie Question

I read it as the 2346 being an underdog, not the made Seven.
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Old 05-12-2018, 11:28 PM   #3
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: Archie Question

Hi Kaiser, that is my website and electrical is correct.

The gist I was trying to make is that unlike other hi lo games you can’t keep the seven low and freeroll the player with high pair. You can either lock in half or risk losing it all.
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:20 AM   #4
KaiserChefs
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Re: Archie Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
Hi Kaiser, that is my website and electrical is correct.

The gist I was trying to make is that unlike other hi lo games you can’t keep the seven low and freeroll the player with high pair. You can either lock in half or risk losing it all.
That makes more sense when read as the 4 card draw having 46% equity. Thanks to both of you for the clarification. (Great site by the way!)
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:31 AM   #5
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: Archie Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiserChefs View Post
That makes more sense when read as the 4 card draw having 46% equity. Thanks to both of you for the clarification. (Great site by the way!)
Thanks bud
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:54 PM   #6
RolldUpTrips
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Re: Archie Question

Be aware that in Vegas we play 66 and scoop if no qualifier (LA, too)
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:50 PM   #7
zoogenhiem
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Re: Archie Question

Scoop if no qualifier refers to a player scooping if no one qualifies for a certain half the pot? That seems pretty standard, right? Or is something more nuanced going on?
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Old 05-20-2018, 02:34 AM   #8
RolldUpTrips
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Re: Archie Question

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Originally Posted by zoogenhiem View Post
Scoop if no qualifier refers to a player scooping if no one qualifies for a certain half the pot? That seems pretty standard, right? Or is something more nuanced going on?
In Arizona they play that if nobody makes any qualifier the pot is chopped among all live hands. in LV and LA we play the high scoops. It's a better rule and encourages some more bluffs and stuff
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Old 05-20-2018, 04:14 AM   #9
chillrob
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Re: Archie Question

How would that encourage bluffs?
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:05 AM   #10
RolldUpTrips
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Re: Archie Question

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How would that encourage bluffs?
Suppose you're HU. If you have the worse of two non-qualified hands and you bluff you gain half the pot the AZ way, but the whole pot the LV/LA way. Of course, this encourages a bit more bluff-catching, as well. Bluffs are still rather rare in Archie, but at least this way it's a bit more interesting.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:59 AM   #11
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: Archie Question

The LA/NV way makes high flush draws worth more than AZ and I already think they are very good hands there.

Note when I played this at Rio a few years ago it was AZ way. But I was not there last year.

Anyhow it sounds weird that there is a qualifier except if you are at the river and no one qualifies than there is no high qualifier and best high takes it
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Old 05-20-2018, 01:27 PM   #12
DeathDonkey
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Re: Archie Question

Yeah I live in Arizona but the rules elsewhere (66+ and best high scoops if no qualifier) are better in every way. 66 instead of 99 makes for more poker on the river as well.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:32 PM   #13
RolldUpTrips
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Re: Archie Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
Yeah I live in Arizona but the rules elsewhere (66+ and best high scoops if no qualifier) are better in every way. 66 instead of 99 makes for more poker on the river as well.
Not just on the river, but sometimes you have to decide whether or not to switch when you accidentally pair earlier.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:39 PM   #14
KaiserChefs
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Re: Archie Question

Thanks everyone for the responses. This is definitely eye opening.

Scotch, I notice your articles are written for a 99 high qualifier and a chop if no qualifying hand. What strategic adjustments would you make if playing the Las Vegas way? Does this change any of your high hand starting recommendations?
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:59 PM   #15
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Re: Archie Question

I just played the 9/18 mix at the Wynn in Las Vegas last week, and they played Archie as 9 or better to qualify for high, and if there were no qualifying hands at showdown then there would be a split pot.
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