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Old 10-31-2018, 04:50 AM   #1
trebe
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6 plus, short deck and triton poker

I had no other clue where to put this because the game is so new. But its great fun at microstakes and I want to get better through out of game learning, the experience method is working for now. However as I get more experienced and learn at the tables, so does everyone else. So I need like a support group or chat group or something but don't know how to start one.

Is anyone else here interested in the game and discussing and getting better at it? Because I'd like to get decent at it and will need help, but can also offer help.

So any takers?

Also mods is it ok to put this in 2 other forums, beginners and coaching. It has been played so little i think if i just put it in this one its going to dissappear
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:18 PM   #2
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

Hi trebe, in your version do trips beat straights?


I've done significant work on the version where straights still beat trips which is often referred to as Triton Hold'em

I think the ante only version where straights beat trips is more interesting, however, you may only be able to play the other version online
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:23 PM   #3
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

The difference in the two games is immense as the board will end up paired almost 50% of the time.

Where trips beat straights, even the best connectors are trouble hands. But in the other version they are premium hands.
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:09 PM   #4
trebe
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

I'm playing 6 plus which is a set beats a straight and a flush beats a full house. Also it isn't an ante game is just regular pre-flop betting with blinds.

I love it, its a great game for someone who hasn't been playing poker longer than a year as it has a lot of gamble to it.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:09 PM   #5
trebe
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
The difference in the two games is immense as the board will end up paired almost 50% of the time.

Where trips beat straights, even the best connectors are trouble hands. But in the other version they are premium hands.
Yeh I like it with the sets beating out the straights It makes for some intersting flops. Someone will have top 2, someone else a set and someone else the nut straght all on the flop more often than you'd expect.

Pocket pairs become a hell of a lot more valuable as a set on the flop is pretty nutted,

Plus, weird fact. J10s and AKs have the same equity roughly preflop.Think about how often JTs hits the flop, it almost never misses to at least have a pair or gut shot with pair. Knowing your equity in these weird spots is valuable.Like knowing how much more equity you have to hit hands like straights, knowing not to over Value 2 pair hands.


There's loads I want to learn and loads I keep picking up hera and there. But a good discussion group for it would be great. Because there are nearly zero good websites for info on this game.

We need to discuss this more! ITs a great game
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:16 PM   #6
trebe
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

I'm undecided on whether to value low suited connectors like 67s 78s as even playable. I get confused because if you get a flush its nutted; so more incentive than usual; but you only have 5 flush outs to hit so your odds of getting a flush are less. Plus how much more often straights are made in the game. If you're open ended to a nut straight then you are 52%chance to win as long as you arent drawing dead.

Where does that leave them? Chase at the right price I guess, even more with a pair just in case it suits up and you hit trips. So you have to take into account that a set is pretty nutted to, so hitting your 3 outer is only 10% tof the time but if you do hit it then you are winning often at showdown and are almost definitely if the flush hits.

Last edited by trebe; 10-31-2018 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:38 PM   #7
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

Canít imagine that 87s is profitable

Itís a below average hand in Triton in 6 plus it is pretty bad

Only premium connectors are good, and only in HU or 3 handed pots
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:38 PM   #8
trebe
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
Canít imagine that 87s is profitable

Itís a below average hand in Triton in 6 plus it is pretty bad

Only premium connectors are good, and only in HU or 3 handed pots
Yeh I cant see it being valuable in the long run either but an interesting thought.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:59 PM   #9
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

FWIW these are my power ratings for connectors based upon factors such as # straights and draws flopped and nuttiness of hands. This is just based upon straight making ability, other hands such as KQ obviously hold high pair and trip ability. Even when straights beat trips 87 and 76 aren't that great. Ratings are based upon it's value when compared with JT, the premium connector

Power
Rating
JT 100
98 71
QJ 68
T9 67
QT 64
J9 42
T8 38
97 38
KQ 36
KJ 35
KT 34
87 30
Q9 15
J8 13
T7 11
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:23 PM   #10
trebe
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
FWIW these are my power ratings for connectors based upon factors such as # straights and draws flopped and nuttiness of hands. This is just based upon straight making ability, other hands such as KQ obviously hold high pair and trip ability. Even when straights beat trips 87 and 76 aren't that great. Ratings are based upon it's value when compared with JT, the premium connector

Power
Rating
JT 100
98 71
QJ 68
T9 67
QT 64
J9 42
T8 38
97 38
KQ 36
KJ 35
KT 34
87 30
Q9 15
J8 13
T7 11

Cheers dude. But i'm not sre what it means or how i can use it, would you explain a a bit please?
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:35 PM   #11
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Originally Posted by trebe View Post
Cheers dude. But i'm not sre what it means or how i can use it, would you explain a a bit please?
well for 6 plus, would imagine only QT+ is profitable if that..well KQ is more than fine too because of it's ability to make higher pairs and trips and out kick people

Basically what this chart is saying is that a hand like QT is only around 64% as effective in it's straight making ability as JT.


So I use it back up my hand rankings and where to enter the pot from in the ante only straights beat trips versions. And if 76 is weak in that structure than its a pile of dung in your version

Oh I see that was an old version where 76 was not even included but it has a rating of 13
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:36 AM   #12
pucmo
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

Twice the 52-card deck (36 cards doubles, e.g. AA is 1% instead of 0.5%). As so, IMO, 6-max UTG is like 66/AK-AQ, JT/AKs-ATs, KQs, QJs-QTs, JTs-98s. This plays the full range of pocket pairs and zero gapper suited connectors. One can calculate the percentage and compare to 52-cards. Just the high cards have been cut here.

When sets get beat by straights, I don't feel too confident about the 66-88 in loose games. It doesn't look too bad to me to muck AQ UTG 6-max in loose games, and in a loose full ring, I would muck AK from any position. I don't have issues with the suited connectors no matter what the rules are.

Calling a pot or so 3-bet, in theory, one again splits the range but it depends on the 3-bettor. A tight player 3-bets with a big pair (this is like AA-KK possibly, that may be correct, as far as the big pairs go), and a JT or a similar bluff range, perhaps. The Snowie people might 3-bet most hands they play. So, it is completely different what one does with big cards (and other cards) when one gets 3-bet. The ranges one is against are different in many ways. Does it make sense to call a tight 3-bet with a suited connector? A pocket pair is more solid. One makes the opponent's range the range one is looking at, rather than the range one has when opening.

Axs figures to stay as Axs, like A6s-A9s, and ATs+, we just will have the ever-popular JT also (a flip vs. AK) that will probably sometimes be overplayed. It is a huge dog vs. a tight range. I can imagine some bigger and medium/small suited connectors also, 3-betting. AK, AQ, AJ, AT, not necessarily suited. And so it goes, more complex. One will likely get 3-bet by a hand like 66 also, sometimes.

Post flop play can be sort of tighter but more aggro because of straight draws. The flop raises might be with a (straight) draw (if it raises, being a flip vs. one pair) or better most of the time; meaning one pair is a muck vs. that range, or if it has blockers, backdoors, it might be worth to take a card off like in 52-cards it might be, or going all-in in cases.

How to play the flop needs more air in this game also, at least when the flop is heads up or so. One way to do it is to slowplay more strong hands. Also, the one pair might better check more flops, like it is often done in PLO and is a regular play much of the time in NLH also when its kicker is questionable or not worth betting yet or in some cases (one plays against top pairs in 36-cards also). That also protects the check range.
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:20 PM   #13
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

pucmo, do you play straights>trips with blinds?

Have to disagree with AK, as it's always a play especially in the ante only version. And it's very hard to overplay especially with 100 effective ante stacks which is equivalent to around 33 big blinds in Hold'em

AK blocks AA and KK, you are 15% vs AA and surprisingly 44% vs KK

AK is a 52% favorite over QQ, 50% coinflip with TT and JTs and favorite over everything else

Anyhow, I have a series of at least nine articles that will be printed by CardPlayer, probably starting in December

However it is focused on the straights>trips ante only version which is the variant with potential staying power and also being played In Aria tournaments and WSOP circuit in Sydney this month

Last edited by ScotchOnDaRocks; 11-28-2018 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:52 PM   #14
kimoser22
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
pucmo, do you play straights>trips with blinds?

Have to disagree with AK, as it's always a play especially in the ante only version. And it's very hard to overplay especially with 100 effective ante stacks which is equivalent to around 33 big blinds in Hold'em

AK blocks AA and KK, you are 15% vs AA and surprisingly 44% vs KK

AK is a 52% favorite over QQ, 50% coinflip with TT and JTs and favorite over everything else

Anyhow, I have a series of at least nine articles that will be printed by CardPlayer, probably starting in December

However it is focused on the straights>trips ante only version which is the variant with potential staying power and also being played In Aria tournaments and WSOP circuit in Sydney this month
yeah it just got approved in MD so it will be interesting to see how it plays...it was approved str8> trips and with a mandatory blind left of the BTN (doesn't mean it won't be played as ante + single blind) also I see people (on streams) just jamming AK,AA-QQ pre-flop (if there is alot of dead money) for the above reasons as people generally start shallower. I've been using the shortdeck.gg calculator to look at random equities (no ranges supported) does anyone have a better free (or reasonably priced alternative?)
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:01 PM   #15
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Originally Posted by kimoser22 View Post
yeah it just got approved in MD so it will be interesting to see how it plays...it was approved str8> trips and with a mandatory blind left of the BTN (doesn't mean it won't be played as ante + single blind) also I see people (on streams) just jamming AK,AA-QQ pre-flop (if there is alot of dead money) for the above reasons as people generally start shallower. I've been using the shortdeck.gg calculator to look at random equities (no ranges supported) does anyone have a better free (or reasonably priced alternative?)
Cool hopefully it is ante only

Yeah I watched all of the streams that were on twitch. You want to limp many hands due to great odds and equities running closer. So AK is a nice hand to hold back as a defense to a button attacking limpers and/or for nice isolation should you have the button dominated if he holds something like AQ. If you raised upfront with AKo and get several callers it will be tough to play anyway

No other calculator that I know of but it is free and accurate from the checks that I did at least. In the articles I do some equity versus range stuff postflop but had to do it old school in a spreadsheet

Last edited by ScotchOnDaRocks; 11-29-2018 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 11-30-2018, 01:39 AM   #16
pucmo
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

I got introduced to this game just a little time ago and I am speculating, building some ideas.

Raising bigger with AK-AQ (and big pairs) should work in loose games. They are weak in a way (relative to 52-cards, one might have garbage) but AK is the nuts. Gives information but should be fine.

An AQ late in 52-cards full ring, I kind of don't like the situation after many enough limpers but that's just my little experience. I have speculated folding AK in a very loose limit holdem full ring game from late position (still profitable), and when the kicker gets weaker, I am thinking more about draws than flopping one pair. Some games are horribly loose and you might not be aware that they even exist.

AK can also be in the rocky aggro ranges; I was thinking a bit about the cold call option. AK should be closer to a GTO bluff-range than in 52-cards where it is also fine and correct in some tighter situations.

Limp might work and also with the suited connectors like in the old-time (and relative) NLH and LHE books. And in PLO. But as the game gets tighter, one will be opening more or less all hands with a raise and then getting 3-bet by more or less a non-nit (person, position), a suited connector can more or less call.

I don't generally like to play trouble hands in loose aggro and nitty games.
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:09 PM   #17
zoogenhiem
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

To check equities, I would think you could use propokertools.com and mark all the 2's thru 5's as dead.
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Old 12-01-2018, 11:16 PM   #18
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Originally Posted by zoogenhiem View Post
To check equities, I would think you could use propokertools.com and mark all the 2's thru 5's as dead.
Yeah only works with non flush possibilities though

Iím confident enough through my own checks and it always matched equities from the stream..although always possible they used same calculator
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:07 PM   #19
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

Why wouldn't it work with flush possibilities as well?
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:23 PM   #20
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Why wouldn't it work with flush possibilities as well?
because flushes beat full houses

I also forgot to mention a6789 straights as another reason
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:48 PM   #21
OFC_OMG
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem View Post
To check equities, I would think you could use propokertools.com and mark all the 2's thru 5's as dead.
I put a calculator together - here is the beta version (can't guarantee this link stays live forever, I'll be doing some reconfiguring at some point with how to make this available)

https://sixpluspoker.com/six-plus/index.html

You can compare equities between NLH and Short (both versions)
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:16 AM   #22
SteelWheel
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

Is this game being spread live anywhere in Vegas on some sort of regular basis?
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:23 AM   #23
OFC_OMG
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Is this game being spread live anywhere in Vegas on some sort of regular basis?
two tester tournaments last weekend at Aria, one today as part of the Wynn Signature Series; other than that it's been mostly high stakes at Aria, with the occasional 1-3 running.

Personally I think it would do well in a limit format (without antes) - but that would require a large swath of players to be educated about the game. Almost nobody has even heard of it, according to regs I've asked.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:44 PM   #24
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Originally Posted by OFC_OMG View Post
two tester tournaments last weekend at Aria, one today as part of the Wynn Signature Series; other than that it's been mostly high stakes at Aria, with the occasional 1-3 running.

Personally I think it would do well in a limit format (without antes) - but that would require a large swath of players to be educated about the game. Almost nobody has even heard of it, according to regs I've asked.
How did those tournaments do?

Itís going to be in CardPlayer mag soon so maybe that will give it a bump
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:04 AM   #25
kimoser22
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Re: 6 plus, short deck and triton poker

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
How did those tournaments do?

Itís going to be in CardPlayer mag soon so maybe that will give it a bump

Look forward to the articles
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