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Old 09-10-2017, 08:00 PM   #1
I shot the sheriff
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$55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

actually I am still playing..

so, if you can give me some good advice before I bust, thank you.

Villains are both unknwon:

Your converted hand, now with more cowbell.
PokerStars No Limit Single Draw ($50+$5) t1250/t2500 ante t625 - 7 players

SB: t236,965
BB: t141,702 (Hero)
UTG: t238,992
UTG+1: t93,238
HJ: t190,217
CO: t81,517
Button: t116,943

Dealing Hands: (t8,125) (7 players)
2 folds, HJ raises to t5725, CO raises to t19000, 2 folds, Hero?
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:24 PM   #2
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by I shot the sheriff View Post
actually I am still playing..

so, if you can give me some good advice before I bust, thank you.

Villains are both unknwon:

Your converted hand, now with more cowbell.
PokerStars No Limit Single Draw ($50+$5) t1250/t2500 ante t625 - 7 players

SB: t236,965
BB: t141,702 (Hero)
UTG: t238,992
UTG+1: t93,238
HJ: t190,217
CO: t81,517
Button: t116,943

Dealing Hands: (t8,125) (7 players)
2 folds, HJ raises to t5725, CO raises to t19000, 2 folds, Hero?
Think I like 40,000 and fold to a push from HJ and call CO. But honestly I'm not sure.

You think the CO is capable of doing this with any ten, right? You don't block any tens directly.

And even with this removal aspect there are more tens than nines, eights, or sevens put together. Some stats here:

http://www.countingouts.com/2-7-pat-hand-decisions/

I'm not sure primarily because if the CO will fold all of the tens to your reraise then that changes the equation substantially. But the presence of the HJ and his really large stack makes an all in or a smooth call seem undesirable. And do we really consider folding a 9? It is super rough nine though, second worst possible.

Long post to say I don't know. This one depends a lot on how the players have been playing.
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:35 AM   #3
RolldUpTrips
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

i would 4b-fold vs hj and c vs co
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:09 AM   #4
MacauBound
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

From what I've seen in NLHE, 4 bets are much smaller raise amounts than 3 bets, but I'm wondering about the merits of 4 betting a bit larger like 55k, giving the HJ more reason to think we will gii and making his pot odds less appealing for cold-calling (w a likely live draw). I'd much rather play this pot HU than MW and I'm happy if we just take it down pre. I don't know much about NL 4 bet sizing theory, but I'm wondering if the 55k 4b accomplishes more of what I think we are trying to accomplish than a smaller size . . .
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:49 PM   #5
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

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Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
From what I've seen in NLHE, 4 bets are much smaller raise amounts than 3 bets, but I'm wondering about the merits of 4 betting a bit larger like 55k, giving the HJ more reason to think we will gii and making his pot odds less appealing for cold-calling (w a likely live draw). I'd much rather play this pot HU than MW and I'm happy if we just take it down pre. I don't know much about NL 4 bet sizing theory, but I'm wondering if the 55k 4b accomplishes more of what I think we are trying to accomplish than a smaller size . . .
well, a cold small 4 bet is extremely scary because it tells story of a monster pat that isn't afraid of someone calling to try and outdraw it

And it's a huge raise to the HJ, so if he's calling to outdraw he's paying for it

Therefore to the HJ I don' think the 55K makes any difference

CO is a different story, I would like to bet more against him but I want to protect myself against the HJ
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:40 PM   #6
Clayton
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

whats the worst hand you get it in vs HJ? 96xxx?

presume if we have a smooth 97 that we break/get it in vs HJ and pat /get it in vs CO?
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:01 PM   #7
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

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Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
whats the worst hand you get it in vs HJ? 96xxx?
I'm not sure, I think I need at least an eight, it seems like there is a big difference between a good nine and the worst eight.

When you have an eight you have a blocker to the eight and no nines. With a 96 you block nines that you beat and none of the eights.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:44 PM   #8
monikrazy
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

Raise to 45k
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:19 PM   #9
electrical
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

Do not like small raise if we are intending to fold ever, would rather just pitch it. I think moving in and folding are both reasonable and I'd make my decision based on what I'd seen the other players call off with. If they're over-valuing pat Tens or calling shoves and breaking a lot then it's a clear shove. If they tend only to call and pat Nines plus then it's a fold.

And yes, there are a sh:t-ton of hands between 987 and 87. Making sense of their relative strengths is critical to this game. Hero's hand blocks all the roughest pat hands so in a vacuum villains' continuing ranges will be lightly polarized to Tens they can break with a lot of equity and smoother pat Nines plus. If HJ has 3b a lot of D1 hands then shipping puts a ton of pressure on any of CO's tweener hands. You'd love it if he could fold and HJ call off with his breakable hands and draw.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:21 AM   #10
zoogenhiem
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

I'm a newb in this game but my first instinct was to jam. I think that's what we'd do with really smooth 1 card draws so that balances out. Raise intermediate with better pat hands maybe balancing that out with a few snows. I don't know what reasonable 4betting size is in this game, but ~50k seems better than ~40k for the aforementioned reasons.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:13 AM   #11
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

Let's make it like the Price is Right, I want to 4 bet to 50,001

I just don't want to jam because I want to protect myself against the HJ but any type of reraise is effectively jamming against the CO.

The only thing I'm afraid of in that line is HJ jamming a premium 1 card draw.

But this one is up in the air, depending on how the players are playing all options seem possible
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:22 AM   #12
MacauBound
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem View Post
I'm a newb in this game but my first instinct was to jam. I think that's what we'd do with really smooth 1 card draws so that balances out. Raise intermediate with better pat hands maybe balancing that out with a few snows. I don't know what reasonable 4betting size is in this game, but ~50k seems better than ~40k for the aforementioned reasons.
I don't think we are jamming w most premium 1 cd draws MW in an MTT; therefore, we aren't really looking to balance w D1 hands (and jamming might not be best w this particular hand anyways). We are OOP, so balance is mostly a non-factor, once we reveal whether we are pat or not.

Yeah 50k could be ok. I think OP left out some key info (some of which would be impossible to provide such as reads he didn't yet have) like what stage of the MTT? ITM or far from bubble? Then maybe those more ICM savvy (def not me) could offer a perspective that makes the decision more clear.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:23 PM   #13
DeathDonkey
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

My first thought was fold. It seems like a tough / close spot
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:53 PM   #14
electrical
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Re: $55 WCOOP 2-7 SD, pat 9 in a 3way 3bet pot

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Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
My first thought was fold. It seems like a tough / close spot
On reflection I think our cards interfering with so many rougher hands and poor draws is enough reason to pitch it. If people have been showing up all day with Jacks they 3b then we have to think harder about who has been doing what, but lacking that information I favor a fold.
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