6-handed

(CO) Villain is competent and a winner

folded to CO, he opens, i call A249K

d2 : d2
A247 - 4
he bets, i call. not sure if this is a raise spot

A2457
d1 : d1
he checks, i bet, he calls

d1 : pat
he checks, i bet, he raises



not sure if people ever do this with a 7 of any sort. and not that i've played a ton of this game but when i was ultra new i'd look up here all the time just to see what was what and i'd almost always see a 6 of some sort. can't imagine it's a bluff.

Also if he's c/r'ing river, doesn't that usually mean his hand's strong enough to lead turn also instead of check calling?

Thoughts? thanks

What stakes?

I don't think your A247-4 spot would be a good raise in general.

After it goes 1-1 on the 2nd draw, I'm not sure why you would think he'd lead when he's still drawing when you could have a made hand.

Awfully strong line by him on the river. Thin value bet on river by you. Unless he's seen all the 3's and thinks he can make you fold a marginal hand, I just don't see his river line as being a bluff very often at all.

Stakes are important. This is a tough—and all too common—spot in triple draw. I agree that villain isn’t bluffing here often, and our hand is rarely good. I think you’ll start to notice strong players checking back on the final betting round in this spot fairly regularly with our hand precisely to avoid the check-raise. Although our hand has showdown value, villain isn’t paying off with so many hands worse than ours, and is check-raising with all better hands. Another consideration is whether our opponents are observant and competent enough to exploit us in future hands if we fold here, and, depending on stakes and game conditions, this factor may mitigate in favor of a call. (Folding the best hand in this spot is, obv, a total disaster; stud hi players will call here more often because it’s a basic stud principle that we should never fold to one bet on 7th St if there’s even a slight chance that our hand is good since there are so many bets in the middle.) Our wont to save a big bet by folding is generally sound, but game conditions/stakes and the extent to which our strong opponent is or is not capable of meta-leveling us with a bluff in this spot should be the determinative factors. I call in this spot more frequently at the higher stakes if my opponents are strong and tricky, and I’m typically more inclined to fold in smaller games to save the big bet.

sorry! 8/16

yeah i'm trying to disabuse myself of the notion that people in the lead should stay in the lead, and i'm trying to still get a feel for how far ahead/behind people really are in these situations.

i did not realize that the vbet on river was thin, as i do see some weird stuff upon showdown since i picked up this game. so am i normally checking this back here then?

thanks, this stuff is definitely stuff i wanna consider for the future.

Why not 3 bet pre? Is cold calling here standard?

There are far fewer good thin value river bets in A-5 than 2-7 since more draws run closer in equity to made hands. Most draw players will have fewer tricky river moves like bluff raises than they would in an equivalent spot in Deuce.

In 2-7, if you patted in position on the turn you'd have a reasonable value bet with a lot of pretty weak hands, particularly if you've blocked good cards or previously taken a snow line and gotten caught. Good players clock your value bets and play with them in mind, so if you make those thin bets to get called light, you're going to get check-raised as a bluff some of the time. This happens much less frequently in A-5, and just as a structural effect, river check-raises will more often be for value.

In A-5 draws to beat top tier hands don't have to fade straight draws, so they complete more often. Any four cards under a Seven can beat a Seven in A-5, but in Deuce there are 4-card hands under an Eight that are drawing dead or nearly so, and if you've blocked relevant cards, even better. That's why you can bet a weaker range for value in 2-7, and as a compliment, why snow works against opponents who need to make strong hands to call.

For the same reasons, the flop isn't a raise. If you're ahead, your equity isn't that durable so you prefer only one bet goes in.

I generally don't like bet/fold lines on the river, but if I decided to bet this hand I'd fold it to the c/raise unless the player had given me a reason not to.

man you guys are awesome with your explanations.

easily my favorite forum section since i came back to playing. appreciate the comments

Is #9 that thin of a value bet? Depends on competition but a 7632A might even be a bet if they pay off with all 7s or a good 8

If this is not profitable as a value bet then it is a super profitable snow line

So highly opponent and history dependent but I do not like b/c

Assuming hero is on the button, I think arguments could be made for either 3! or cc, depending on the blinds.

I don't think the value bet is too thin. It's very opponent-dependent, but I'm prob going to puke fold this time in a small pot or puke call and then hedge the opposite way I went this time, the next few times against anybody that could possibly x/r bluff.

The stakes are 8/16, but I'm almost positive it's played online (w mostly half-decent aggressive regs) on the current king of mixed game sites. It doesn't play as passively as a live 8/16

Yeah, this 8/16 online game is as agro as my live 50/100 game.

Bet on the river is within a couple pips of the bottom of value hands here, but fine. Final decision is pretty opponent-specific, but players tend to be a bit braver online than live. I would call and hope he has 66.