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/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? / Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat?

03-18-2018 , 01:19 PM
Raise button with A36, get re-raised by SB. Both D2.

He bets out. I get A3678.

Given the bet, he's probably D1 or pat given he is a good player and would not likely bet unimproved.

Call and D1, D2, or raise and went through my mind. Decided to just raise and pat as an A3678 is probably a slight underdog like around 46% at worst to hold up after two draws and some chance I get him to break a seven. So with dead money in re-raised pot thought it was the best of three not great options.

So I raise, he does not look happy and draws 2. Was really confused by this action. Thoughts on his hand? Maybe it was something like A45(44) where with pairs he felt it was enough value to bet unimproved on flop? Or maybe he just (incorrectly) bets stuff like unimproved A23(KQ) there.

So anyhow, on turn he checks, I bet, he C/R'd and then I folded. He's a very good accomplished player (in HORSE games) but over the course of 40 hours or so playing against him I've never really seen him show down a snow in any draw game whether it be badugi, 2-7, or A-5. That's not a huge amount of time though but still enough to note.

Last edited by ScotchOnDaRocks; 03-18-2018 at 01:24 PM.
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-18-2018 , 01:42 PM
Actually I think the A3678 is probably close to exactly 50/50 to hold up over the course of two draws twice against a D1.

In 2-7, a nine is a slight favorite and a ten is a slight dog. In A-5 the above hand is close to in between those.

Plus, some possibility of making a seven break.
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-18-2018 , 04:27 PM
Would be close between raise/pat and call/draw two for me. Would rather draw to the 6 than possibly be drawing dead to a 76.

I think I'd play it as you did, and his draw two means something good happened from it, either he broke better or was betting unimproved which is great for us either way.
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-18-2018 , 09:33 PM
I think 0 and 2 are the only reasonable options. Not sure which I would pick
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-19-2018 , 02:00 AM
Good to know raise/pat is an option. My extra limited experience would've had me call and D2. Then again I'm not even done reading Scotch's series of articles so not quite ready for the student to teach the teacher
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-24-2018 , 10:21 PM
a derivative i was thinking of...

say you are villain and rr'd A23 and caught A237 and got raised. are we breaking the 7?

my default would be to always keep the 7 but this thread had me wondering.
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-25-2018 , 12:36 AM
I'm not breaking the 7
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-25-2018 , 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by etm.
I'm not breaking the 7


+1
Raise seems fairly thin vs a range of mostly pat hands and good 1 draws, if our draw is all ready inferior drawing to a 7xxxx for a small bet doesn't seem so bad
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-26-2018 , 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton
a derivative i was thinking of...

say you are villain and rr'd A23 and caught A237 and got raised. are we breaking the 7?

my default would be to always keep the 7 but this thread had me wondering.
good question as this is probably what he had

I would keep the 7 too but if I'm raising with any pat 7 or better my distribution looks like the following and we would be drawing dead to half of them. With any D2 that goes "two to pat" that would be the case.

A36

6432A 1.4%
6532A 1.4%
6543A 1.4%
7632A 1.4%
7643A 1.4%
7653A 1.4%
8.4%

Not a plum spot but still think keeping it is right for reasons that extend past this hand.
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-26-2018 , 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
+1
Raise seems fairly thin vs a range of mostly pat hands and good 1 draws, if our draw is all ready inferior drawing to a 7xxxx for a small bet doesn't seem so bad
I'm definitely a hot/cold dog when you include pat hands (that don't break) and 1 card draws as I might only be 50/50 (if that) over a D1 hand

But the on the whole I like a raise because

1) Chance of making someone break a made 7 or a D1 7 is very real
2) Other options are not great
3) Think the raise in this hand was based upon sound logic but may be misinterpreted and players may think I'm playing way different than I actually am

Last edited by ScotchOnDaRocks; 03-26-2018 at 12:52 AM.
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote
03-26-2018 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips
I think 0 and 2 are the only reasonable options. Not sure which I would pick
If I called I would definitely D2 if he patted.

But against a D1 I think D1 also has merit. To some extent I would alleviate some of the reverse odds bad draw problem by snowing it on the turn.

It's a re-raised pot and a D1 improves our realization.
/ Ace to Five: D2, D1, or Pat? Quote

      
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