6 Handed Game, 40/80 Mix, 2-7 round


UTG Limps(solid loser 70vpip all games), HJ(sun-runner that looks to make exploitable folds, also have scene him r/4! And pat 98732 utg) raises, I 3! CO With with 752(normally just call here but we gotta tax utg yeah?), BU(Solid Player) calls, UTG calls, HJ now 4!

2-pat-2-2

UTG checks, HJ bets, Hero raise 75422, BU calls, UTG calls, HJ now just calls(now we know he has some trashy 8 or 9)

2-pat-1-1

UTG checks, HJ now leads of course, I raise 75542(very very happy to raise cause HJ is is forced to fold very very often) BU calls 2 cold, UTG calls 2 and HJ now folds,

Just a dream scenario when it goes

1-1-1

Seems pretty standard in my opinion but I'm trying to make sure I'm not just losing my mind here,

Thoughts?

I think every betting decision is wrong. I’m curious why you think this is standard?

Preflop 3!- I feel like we should be taxing utg limp as much as possible, and really like the idea of getting ip vs a utg limp and a HJ that is playing way too wide of a range, honestly think hes opening and 3 cards under and 8 besides 456/567/678, as well as any pat 9's, and as mentioned scene him pat 98732 right away

Flop- I like the idea of pushing BU out of the pot, taxing Utg if he continues, and playing my 1 card draw vs HJ, especially if I believe I can make him fold in later streets,

Turn- I believe HJ will now fold/break almost always, again pushing bu out of the hand if he's not pat sounds great as well as utg

Maybe I just went full on monkey feel player mode, but HJ never has a strong hand here and I'm not concerned about the other two players in the hand especially since I obviously have an equity edge against them if they're still drawing

Preflop - could go either way, I don't mind it if the BTN and blinds are tough. But our hand plays very well MW and we can wait to put in more action once we actually make a hand.

Flop - spewy, could only be correct if HJ never makes these weird LRR w nutty pat hands. You like the idea of folding BTN out by raising (I would also), but that's almost never happening for only 2 small bets, after he's already called 3 cold pre and has position. Maybe if you started w a premium D1 like 2457x and BTN didn't improve to a D1 on the first draw, he might fold. But the pot is laying him too good of a price to fold, esp if he knows you are prone to take these kind of lines.

Turn - same as flop, too spewy and you're putting in too much money without reason. If anyone behind you makes even an 87+, they could 3 bet and you'd have a wheel draw that's likely not live. When a hand goes off 4 ways and 3 players see the last draw, there aren't many low cards left. So 3468x isn't going to fare much worse than 2457x when almost every card below a 9 is partly or fully dead. You all need each other's cards and it's something like a T, 9 or worse that often wins these pots. Hopefully you won w a T, putting the HJ on tilt and dragging a monster in the process!

Pre is whatever - I just call but I don't much care.
Flop is ridiculous
Turn is ridiuclous

Flop there was no LRR Macua,

I still feel pretty happy raising the flop against a pat hand, who again didn't 3! the flop, does anyone else agree we can get this hand to fold almost always with a turn raise? And of course the two other two card draws, one of which is redic wide, and the other gets in a pretty stuff spot imo,

Turn- The biggest reason for this turn raise is I'm able to get HJ to fold,


Just seems to me it's a very big pot vs very wide ranges and maybe we should try some non-std lines with still decent equity to try and win outright,

Anyway results-
HJ folded vs turn raise

River went 1-1-1

Utg makes 87653
I makes A7542
BU makes 85432, who tells me honestly that he had 2345 on flop and turn

I like the pre action. I agree you need to tax the UTG limp which is most likely a D3.

257 has the potential to be a MW hand but we could get the 2578 on flop and all of a sudden wish that they weren't four other people in the pot.

Seems like there is an equity advantage to be had predraw to be had so I just take that along with what should be best position unless the button has a premium hand.

I mind the later streets abit less than others, given your draw and what should be the roughness of the pat hand, and the other guys calling you made money on the flop. Post draw rounds not standard, requires some history and reads which you thought you had and it turns out you were right.

pre could be ok, everything else isn't. I think mixed games especially the draw high only variants are extremely technical/ straightforward with more than 3 players. I really enjoy HUHU and 3 handed because you can open up and force a lot of mistakes while having a bunch of fe.

However, playing anything other than standard in this spot is just lighting money on fire.

Edit: on second thought this could be ok if BU wasn't in the hand. I mean if it's just utg hj and yourself (and your reads are right about HJ) then yeah forcing a fold and getting in a 1-1 spot against a big fish IP with a lot of dead money in the middle certainly isn't that bad.

Pre is good since you put opener on any 3 cards 8 and under.

Can you explain why flop move is necessary? Seems like turn move could be accomplished without putting flop money in bad.

Raise pre is correct - punish the UTG limper and could well be ahead of raiser.

Raise on flop is also correct. You are a favorite to beat the raiser's pat 9s and can probably get him to break some bad 8s on later streets. Also want to be punishing worse D1s behind you and/or getting them to fold some D2s and deny their equity.

I also like the raise on the turn. Hand could be won right away if players behind are still drawing to 87 and decide to fold and the crappy pat hand folds. Plus players behind you aren't likely to 3 bet since you're range is so strong - you're really only getting 3 bet by 86s and better.

As happens on the hand, you get the pat hand to fold and it goes 1-1-1 where you have the best draw by far!

Pre and flop are absolutely standard and I personally think the turn play is excellent although calling has its merits as well (ie, make a 7 in a 4 way pot and get some value on the end or brick it and get out of the pot for just 1 big bet on last two betting rounds).

I also think every street is wrong. If this seems pretty standard that’s not good

Seems like it is time to change your opinion of the Button, at least in regards to TD 27, when he calls 3 cold while drawing 2 and no 7 or 8 to anchor the high end.

The raise after d2 seems pretty bad. Other streets are shrug-fine.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

NOBODY is folding a 2 card draw, which means 3B pf is lighting money on fire. Your just bloating the pot and creating a situation that will encourage opponents to go to showdown. You do not have an equity edge, in fact you are rarely more than a 10% fav over UTG 3 card limp rage in a multiway pot, especially if one of the opponents has outs you need (more likely than not in a 3 way pot)/. Your best bet preflop with this action is to have around 28-31% equity, that is not a good spot to be in.

Exploitive line: If you know BTN, Blinds and UTG will all fold to a 3bet, then go right ahead and jam it! Your goal wen 3Betting is to thin the field, not inflate the pot in TD with this action PF.

Lets assume UTG's range is something like 8d 6d 3h, HJ's hand is 9s 4c 7c 3c 5c, and BTN is semi clean with a hand like 248 - you have 45.8% equity on the flop. If we change UTG to 7d 6d 3h, you have 49% equity. If we give HJ 8s 4c 7c 3c 5c instead of a 9, then your equity drops to 40.9% hot and cold equity in a 4 way pot. Once he has a dirty 8 like 8 6 7 5 3 then you have anywhere between a 40% and and 35% equity. If you jam and you get it heads up, you are flipping vs a hand like 8s 5c 7c 3c 6c or 9s 5c 7c 3c 6c - they both have around the same equity.

What does this tell us? Hero makes more long term by letting the two extra players stay in rather than jamming them out of the pot going into the second draw.

(note we are assuming there is one dead 5, this helps us model the possibilities a bit more realistically since 2 or more of your outs will usually be dead 4 way).

As played, BTN is likely as clean as Hero. UTG is more likely to have an 8 draw to the 3 like 8d 6d 5h 3h. Vs this range UTG still has around 20% equity, with Hero and BTN carving up the rest to run remarkably close, there is no clear fav. Even if UTG wasn't' in the hand the equities still run really close. Lets be clear, this is NOT a dream scenario, you just put a ton of chips into a pot with no equity edge. At best your flipping, at worst your a small dog.

caveat - I am sick as a dog, feel free to point out any typos I may have missed. Not feeling well enough to error check today.

Pf raise is lighting money on fire? No one is suggesting a D2 will fold including OP. He said he would normally call, but he was taxing the loose limper.

You probably have 35-40% pre, best bet is 28-31% vs a 70% limper? Are you talking about if it just went three ways? (Edit it looks like you are saying how the action went down, but that seems results oriented)

Of course, you don't know what the Button, SB, and BB will do, but good players need a premium D2 wheel to continue. And I don't care if blinds continue with worse.

Does anyone snow here with the 5's 3 handed after we forced the HJ to break his hand?

Not me, not turning my premium draw into a snow

752 is pretty strong and I don't think 3-bet pf is lighting money on fire.

I also disagree that btn calling with 234 or 235 makes him a bad player. Those are both premium hands.

TT, i'm not sure how you can dog the PF play because it binds everyone to showdown and simultaneously dog the flop play because it forces people out of a bloated pot. i think the former is more correct and flop play is frequently pushing equity in what will be a 4 way pot

some itt also seem to be under the impression that buttons play with three wheels is worse than if he had 842...