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Old 02-06-2019, 04:47 PM   #1
zoogenhiem
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2-7TD MTT Spot

Early levels, everyone has at least 20 big bets to start the hand. 5 handed.

Predraw: I raise HJ with A7652, btn calls, bb calls.
1st draw: 3/1/2
Flop: bb checks, I bet with 76552, both call
2nd draw: 1/1/1
Turn: bb bets out, I have 76532, I call (thoughts?), btn calls
3rd draw: 0/0/1
River: bb bets, Hero?

So raise turn and/or river?
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:53 PM   #2
SpecificOcean
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

I don't know what the correct turn play is, but I suspect flatting turn becomes a larger mistake the worse the IP player is. I've wondered myself how to play this spot, it's pretty awkward with bad 8's.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:16 PM   #3
ninefingershuffle
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

I certainly raise the river and I’d also raise the turn here.

On the turn the raise is only bad if somehow they both fold.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:29 PM   #4
SetofJacks
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

I'd like to know why you don't want to raise; I'd raise both streets.
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:09 PM   #5
zoogenhiem
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

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Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
I'd like to know why you don't want to raise; I'd raise both streets.
My logic for calling turn was
1) with such a strong hand, I'm happy to let the button in possibly drawing dead
2) I'm happy to let the bb pat incorrectly when he could be drawing to beat me
3) calling here balances the times I want to call and pat a hand like a bad 8
4) I expect Villain will put me on a bad 8 and so if it does go 0/0/1, I'm certain to get a bet, whereas if I raise, btn folds, bb calls, and it goes 0/0 or even 1/0 then I may not get a bet on the river.

So looking at scenarios on how many extra bets we get:
Worst case: raise turn, btn folds, bb calls and check/folds river = 1 bet
Likely case: raise turn, btn folds, bb calls and check/calls river = 2 bets
Case I was going for: call turn, btn calls, bb leads river, I raise river, btn folds, bb calls = 3 bets
Reason not to just flat river: call turn, btn calls, bb leads river, I call river, btn calls = 3 bets but doesn't give btn the chance to call 2 bets on the river and doesn't even guarantee btn will call, while bb is very likely to call river raise with whole pat range

Also the question is, on which street is the btn most likely to call 2 bets?
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:25 PM   #6
RolldUpTrips
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Good rule in poker:
If you're worried about balance, balance on the side of aggression, not the side of passivity.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:04 AM   #7
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

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Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
Good rule in poker:
If you're worried about balance, balance on the side of aggression, not the side of passivity.
I like it bud, you said the same thing when Sklar limped those rolled up queens
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:11 AM   #8
RolldUpTrips
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
I like it bud, you said the same thing when Sklar limped those rolled up queens
True story. I guess I agree with myself :-)
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:09 AM   #9
skoldpadda
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
I certainly raise the river and Iíd also raise the turn here.

On the turn the raise is only bad if somehow they both fold.
Even then it's not really bad, just variance.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:01 PM   #10
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

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Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
True story. I guess I agree with myself :-)
Great commentary by the way

Just hope they donít do any more eight handed. Once 8 handed Razz came up I just hit the fast forward button lol
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:31 PM   #11
electrical
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Sorry to derail but

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
Great commentary by the way
CONFIRMED. You and Nick should do all non-holdem commentary lifetime.

Quote:
Just hope they donít do any more eight handed. Once 8 handed Razz came up I just hit the fast forward button lol
The Razz was the best part of the mixed game broadcasts. Watching Gus and then Eli root around in the dark gave me a kind of visceral joy I would otherwise feel guilty about.
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:35 PM   #12
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
Sorry to derail but


CONFIRMED. You and Nick should do all non-holdem commentary lifetime.


The Razz was the best part of the mixed game broadcasts. Watching Gus and then Eli root around in the dark gave me a kind of visceral joy I would otherwise feel guilty about.
Oh when Gus was on a few weeks ago it was six handed. I donít hate Razz, just donít like watching it on TV 8 handed lol
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:38 PM   #13
electrical
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Content: definitely raise turn. A big part of BB's range on the turn will be bad/breakable pats he will give up on when you pat behind, but if he would draw to an Eight instead of patting a T8 you prefer him to pay a couple of bets, then go ahead and do it.

I like freezing once in a while HU but with the third man in the pot go ahead and raise the turn. Your hand isn't bulletproof, and who knows maybe he'll take two cold and draw dead.

As played, of course raise the river.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:53 PM   #14
zoogenhiem
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Results:

I did raise river, got called by both players, and my hand was good! So about as good an outcome as I could've hoped for but thanks for the input on the turn spot.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:52 PM   #15
DeathDonkey
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

I think your play was reasonable but my reasoning would be itís a good trapping / balance hand. Your part about making them pat dead rather than draw live is not really valid here, itís more of a consideration when you have an 86 or something. Here you should generally risk it to get value.

I tend to agree w randy that you should err on the side of aggression but in 2-7 specifically a lot of times itís hard to find a bluffing hand. So I think this sort of play is within reason.
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:24 AM   #16
RolldUpTrips
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
I think your play was reasonable but my reasoning would be it’s a good trapping / balance hand. Your part about making them pat dead rather than draw live is not really valid here, it’s more of a consideration when you have an 86 or something. Here you should generally risk it to get value.

I tend to agree w randy that you should err on the side of aggression but in 2-7 specifically a lot of times it’s hard to find a bluffing hand. So I think this sort of play is within reason.
Hey, CHRIS, who's this randy?? It's RolldUpTrips! :-)

Seriously, though, I totally agree with your first paragraph, I was just making a general point.
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:36 AM   #17
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Sorry lol thought you blew up your own spot already this thread
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:46 AM   #18
RolldUpTrips
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Haha yeah my name is no secret or anything just kidding around :-).
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:56 AM   #19
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

This is my fault although I was slightly more discrete
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:35 AM   #20
RolldUpTrips
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
This is my fault although I was slightly more discrete
lol i hope its clear that I was totally kidding. I've never hidden who I am
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:30 AM   #21
zoogenhiem
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

I'm so confused
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:15 AM   #22
MacauBound
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

Iíd just raise turn if your image or their tendencies suggest that one, or hopefully both, will think you are possibly raising to simultaneously get the BB to fold and get the btn to break or fold, so that the 3rd draw go 0-1 and youíre 98643 is a nice favorite in a decent sized pot. Ideally, both players call turn raise, BB Pats 3rd, and you get at least one more bet on the river. If either player is laggy/suspicious they could spew 3! hoping you will break and/or get the pot hu

Flattting the turn, to raise river, def adds some balance and protects your freeze range. If your Mw freeze range here only consists of 87, then BB can always lead better on the river w impunity. By delaying, you might give up some value in this particular hand, but it might pay dividends in future hands - they might not be able to value bet river as thin after you freeze, or make drawing mistakes in the future. And thereís no guarantee that raising turn will yield more bets in this hand, but it does seem likely.

. . . ďTo learn more, visit infowars.com lolĒ
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:35 PM   #23
electrical
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Re: 2-7TD MTT Spot

I think freezing in the middle multiway should be a very rare play. Super hard to balance and surrenders several bets w/ best hands if villains are sticky on turn but won't call wide enough on the river, a fairly common profile. There may be some better freeze opportunities when you're closing the action, but even there, multiway I probably want to get the bets in more than not.
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