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Old 11-10-2018, 12:29 AM   #26
skoldpadda
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Re: 2-7 td pat decision

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Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
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Why? You're probably never getting CRed and you miss some value I'd think with something like a good 97.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:59 AM   #27
DeathDonkey
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Re: 2-7 td pat decision

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Originally Posted by skoldpadda View Post
Why? You're probably never getting CRed and you miss some value I'd think with something like a good 97.


Oh shoot I misunderstood his question. I thought he meant what would I pat OOP and then donk bet river. I see now his question is much more reasonable
Yeah I think 97
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:29 PM   #28
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Re: 2-7 td pat decision

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
Some good questions and why I like participating, anyhow suppose you have 238, were re-raised pre draw and your opponent has been drawing one the entire time with 2457 and of course a bet going in on every street.

There is around a 1.6% probability of drawing T9 which is the same probability of drawing a 96 for a 98632. Let's clear that up in case you thought there were more T9s. A two to pat range is uniform, not top heavy in case there was confusion about that.


If you draw to the 2389 you have around 29% equity and your opponent has an easy pat with 2457T. But this is something you would do as you preserve around .80 big bets. In theory you will lose around .25 of a big bet on the river due to the inferior draw if everything is playing the river normal.


When you keep the 2389T you have 39% if he keeps the 2457T but assuming he breaks which I assume he will your equity goes up to 43.5%.

Now this equity difference is substantial as you now preserve an additional .80 of a big bet from your decision to stay pat. The pure equity jump should alleviate concerns. I'm never calling river obviously with T9 as you allude to you must call a bit more possibly with other hands..but overall I'm assuming you more than make out. But I'd gamble his bluffing frequency does not increase in reality, although even if it does the math appears to more than check out.
Excellent post Scotch.

I meant more like if your xcall patting all combos of T9xxx to 97xxx, then that is a lot of combos overall (more if we include some Jx Qx). Obviously we will xcall break a good portion of them as well.

But don’t we want some combos in this set to XR also? Are you saying you’ll only XR 96xxx+ and xcall (pat or break) all worse?

This can’t be the case right? How do figure out what combos play better as XR or xcall pat?

I’ve seen ranges with various combos in each (XR/Xcall pat) but I don’t know why they were chosen or if it even makes sense to balance them this way.

Last edited by SpewArtist; 11-10-2018 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 11-11-2018, 01:03 AM   #29
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: 2-7 td pat decision

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Originally Posted by SpewArtist View Post
Excellent post Scotch.

I meant more like if your xcall patting all combos of T9xxx to 97xxx, then that is a lot of combos overall (more if we include some Jx Qx). Obviously we will xcall break a good portion of them as well.

But donít we want some combos in this set to XR also? Are you saying youíll only XR 96xxx+ and xcall (pat or break) all worse?

This canít be the case right? How do figure out what combos play better as XR or xcall pat?

Iíve seen ranges with various combos in each (XR/Xcall pat) but I donít know why they were chosen or if it even makes sense to balance them this way.
Oh no I would never have a pure linear c/r c/c line like that, Iíve come up with what I think is best using logic, math, and differing among player types and ranges but some 8s are c/c, some 9s are c/r, and some Ts are c/r as well.

Anyhow, it happens frequently in poker where we have a capped range OOP and have potential to be in uncomfortable position where we really only beat bluffs, and the guy isnít bluffing often but the pot is offering really good odds. It happens a lot in Razz for example.

So it seems as if there is an ultra aversion to facing these spots in 27TD because it seems like you are putting yourself there by patting more and obviously not being super strong. But in doing so you are preserving so much equity, and at the end of the day thereís nothing really your opponent can do about it in a Limit game
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