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Old 03-10-2017, 06:58 PM   #26
DeathDonkey
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Re: 2-7 TD interesting turn spot

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Originally Posted by Tapirboy View Post
They are, in fact, very bad. This is quite like freezing against a player who isn't pat - we're dumping equity like mad by not getting that third bet in.



This basically never happens. And if it does we might possibly be missing one bet from SB. Anything BB folds here was never putting more money in.
Fully agree w hero value and fully disagree w this. Our range is thrilled the times they both draw. One could argue our range may be happy if they both fold as well, and I would agree. But when im on one extreme of my range I prefer the greedy thing happens and here we prefer nobody fold and maybe someone has something.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:09 PM   #27
Hero Value
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Re: 2-7 TD interesting turn spot

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Originally Posted by Tapirboy View Post
They are, in fact, very bad. This is quite like freezing against a player who isn't pat - we're dumping equity like mad by not getting that third bet in.

This basically never happens. And if it does we might possibly be missing one bet from SB. Anything BB folds here was never putting more money in.
Incorrect. For both parts. There's definitely a reasonable enough non-zero amount of the time that the bb just folds to our cold 3bet. And there are definitely hands that the bb has that we get more value from by flatting. (including snows for example.)
And in general the sb should not be flatting the 3bet for 2bets cold and then drawing.
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Fully agree w hero value and fully disagree w this. Our range is thrilled the times they both draw. One could argue our range may be happy if they both fold as well, and I would agree. But when im on one extreme of my range I prefer the greedy thing happens and here we prefer nobody fold and maybe someone has something.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:09 AM   #28
Tapirboy
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Re: 2-7 TD interesting turn spot

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Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
Fully agree w hero value and fully disagree w this. Our range is thrilled the times they both draw.
Sure it is. It's not like them drawing is bad. Them drawing without us getting an extra bet in is bad. I'm not advocating that we want them to fold. When they're drawing there's ridiculous value in the threebet.

If these guys are so freakishly bad that they will fold here and you can semibluff them to death while never raising them with a real hand, by all means. That seems really unlikely to me.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:24 AM   #29
Tapirboy
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Re: 2-7 TD interesting turn spot

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Originally Posted by Hero Value View Post
And in general the sb should not be flatting the 3bet for 2bets cold and then drawing.
Only in the sense that against the drained threebet range you've defined for Hero, and the behaviors you've defined for BB, he ought to be fourbetting.
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:49 PM   #30
Hero Value
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Re: 2-7 TD interesting turn spot

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Only in the sense that against the drained threebet range you've defined for Hero, and the behaviors you've defined for BB, he ought to be fourbetting.
No. And don't forget we've seen 3 2s.
So either only one of them has the case 2, or neither do. Think about what they would do, or how they'd proceed vs a 3bet if they didn't have a 2.
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