Huhu 40/80mix 2-7, villian is a somewhat thinking player that's trying to win, two spots I'm not certain of,

I'm on button both hands,

I raise 87542, call

Draw 2, I take 1,

Seems pretty silly to break this hand but 3 draws ip to make a hand I feel comfy putting multiple bets in sounds fun.

Hand 2.

I raise 7632x, call,

2-1

I make 97632,

Check/Bet/Call

1- I draw 1.

Standard to pitch 9 after 1st draw?

Making a pat hand is nice but again seems fun to make a better hand,

I've been running slightly bad and running 8's into 7's lately so I may think I've been patting to early but breaking both these hands seems standard to me.

Thoughts?

pat both

definitely patting both here, esp hand 1. you have benefit of position in both spots to let you play "perfect" on turn/riv drawing decisions.

I would not break pat number 11 huhu, especially not when our opponent calls and draws 2. I would also be quite stubborn to future action.

I’d pat hand 2 but most likely break to aggression.

I’m breaking #2 all day

Btw I love the description of the villain as a guy that is trying to win. So he wasn’t trying to lose? Lol

Also “he is a thinking player” is abit overused. Everyone is usually trying to think as well, it’s just that some people have flawed thinking. Therefore the thinking part needs to be further developed. What exactly is he thinking about you and your range when we pat? And then how do we possibly use that against him?

Thanks for the advice guys, your draw decisions change at all say we were playing in a full game and get called by either sb pr button and villans draws go the same as posted above?

Hand 1 is a clear pat. Hand 2 I've seen a lot of people pat it and I strongly disagree.

I strongly disagree with strongly.

I think in Hand 2 if you pat it a baby sloth dies. It is just such a sub optimal line imo

The floor is available if anyone wants to try and change my mind though!

My point is that I think it’s quite close. I don’t really have any interest in making a hand waving argument but I will say there are a couple factors that can be common that would make me think patting to be correct.

Factors would be if our opponent would fold his rougher 8 draws (and if his range is rough in general) and/or my own range is quite smooth (ie opened from utg) then I have no problem patting this hand

^ hand waving

True. But persuasive hand waving

I would think that since our draw is so smooth we would feel better about dumping the 9?

Ahh sorry not swayed

Google Matty the Baby Sloth

When you pat Hand 2 he dies horribly

Our draw isn’t actually that smooth.

As much as I love baby sloths, this doesn’t convince me either.

You're correct; I mixed smooth up with clean,

Are we doing anything different on draw rounds if we get called by a blind and the discards go the same?

I was under the assumption we still pitch 9's on 2nd draw

Are we really going to try and debate whether the 76 is smooth? It can make the 2 or 3 best hand, c’mon lol

I mean you hit an 8 and your hand isn’t that great. That’s not nothing. That’s why if I have a smoother range I’d be more inclined to pat and if I have a rougher range, less inclined.

Same as your opponent hitting a 9. That’s nothing then either by the same token.

Patting is a huge mistake, I will discuss further if you attempt to throw some hands into troutulator. I’m off the clock right now.

i'm not sure if i'm using trout correctly (i put in [#of draws 2] instead of the default 3) and pat 9 is favorite over breaking vs 7542 and 8642 if we are both patting a on next street.
i'm confused on the headers that say 2nd draw and 3rd draw. shouldn't it say 1st and 2nd draw being that the 3rd draw we don't have the option of what to keep?

lol woops, I thought H2 was predraw, that would have been an epic mistake to pat, apologies

Auto, I'm not sure what you are doing in trout, but yes a 9 is typically a favorite over a drawing hand with two draws to go.

But there's future betting to consider. OP is this HU? if so, there is $240 in the middle. Let's say we "break off" 5% in hot/cold equity by drawing. That translates into around $12 of current pot preservation. So going forward we have do around $12 better by drawing rather than patting and this is a $40/$80 game. But we are probably breaking off less than 5% actually because our draw is almost always better anyway.

Maybe a baby sloth isn't getting killed by patting , but he's getting slapped a lil' bit

Heading into the 2nd or 3rd draw it basically means

ok. i see. would really help to know what position we opened from. my thinking is if early, we'd have a much easier time patting, being that villain would be less likely to donk river improved? or should the main line of thinking be simply, 2 bets at 60% < 3 bets 55%?. kind of primitive way to put it at least.
btw if we don't improve on turn, do you like checking? i notice a lot of people bet their draw and i don't see what good it does.