I'd rather have a segment every show that is a ridiculous hardcore 24/7 title defense than a ****in 3MB match. They were fun.

This is why LKJ didn't like them.

There is a lot of truth to this statement.

The hardcore title itself was fine and produced the occasional good match. Obviously the 24/7 rule was complete and utter garbage that only served to be a caricature of the Attitude Era.

Agree 1000%

Slaters gonna slate.

The Wyatt family is extremely overrated

lol, I came to the thread to post exactly this

I read some quantitative study where somebody tried to measure workrate by how well a wrestler works with wrestlers relative to how others worked with them. This captures the principle that carrying some no name or some terrible worker to a 3 star match is more impressive than having a 3 star match with HBK or Steamboat.

By this metric, John Cena rates as one of the greatest workers of all time. People usually have matches that rate much higher on star ratings with Cena than they do on average.

Of course some problems exist with this, such as the fact that Cena is just entering his decline phase now, and that wrestlers try to do their best when in the ring with the big star. But Hogan rates as below average still by this metric. Cena I think really knows how to plan a match (or follow a plan) and subtly make the match interesting, despite all his flaws.

Here is the study. The worst wrestler will shock some people also.

https://sites.google.com/site/chrish...g_best_singles

fyp


Wcw/nwo revenge for n64 a close 2nd

Did I just read a sabermetric wrestling post?

Curt Hennig is just about the most overrated wrestler ever. Yes he was a good worker for his time, but he absolutely sucked on the mic and what on earth was the horrible stringy blonde hair about? That's not perfect.

I have a built-in automatic dislike for any second/third gen wrestler until they prove themselves thoroughly. Makes me sick that IRS's kids get an automatic pass into the big time while Ambrose/Punk/Bryan/Rollins/Cesaro had to work for decades.

John Cena is absolutely cancerous to the business. He never helps get anyone over.

Big E is a useless body builder.

Wrestlemania 21 (Batista and Cena win the world titles) was the end of the industry as an ultra-enjoyable product and confirmed the WWE monopoly 1 year after they have a sop to real wrestling fans (Guerrero and Benoit won the world titles at XX).

I already know how Bryan's title reign ends up because we've seen it before with others who aren't the WWE's choice - almost every successful defence of the title WON'T be the last match on the PPV, bc the WWE reserves the last match on the PPV for their stars. When he loses the title then of course it'll go on last.

Vince McMahon is more responsible for the deaths in Pro Wrestling than anyone else.

Totally agree about Mr. Perfect.

After looking for good Jake matches after his HOF speech, I feel the same way about him. Yeah his promos were great but if you can't back them up with even good matches then it lacks impact.

Same for Dibiase.

I'll just go ahead and say it. The Golden Era is overrated.

Mathematically proven 4th greatest worker of all time tho.

(enjoyed that post btw moorobot)

Last two years of Cena on PPV:

RR'12 - vs Kane DCO **
EC'12 - vs Kane ambulance match **
WMXXVIII - vs Rock ***1/2
ER'12 - vs Brock ****
OTL'12 - vs Laurinitis MINUS 5 STARS (genuine contender alongside Undertaker vs Undertaker for the title of worst PPV main ever)
NWO'12 - vs Big Show Cage match **
MITB'12 - vs Kane/Show/Y2J/Miz *** very poor by MITB standards
SS'12 - vs Punk+Show ***1/2
NOC'12 - vs Punk ***1/2
SS'12 - vs Punk+Ryback ***1/4
TLC'12 - vs Ziggler Ladder ***3/4
EC'13 - w/Ryback+Sheamus vs The Shield ***
WMXVIIII - vs The Rock **1/2
ER'13 - vs Ryback LMS ***
Payback - vs Ryback 3 Stages of Hell **3/4
MITB'13 vs Mark Henry **
SS'13 vs Daniel Bryan ****1/2
HITC'13 vs ADR ***3/4
SS'13 vs ADR ***1/2
TlC'13 vs Orton TLC ***1/4
RR'13 vs Orton **1/2
EC'13 vs Orton/Christian/Sheamus/Bryan/Cesaro ***1/2
WMXXX vs Wyatt ***

Who would have thunk it? He mostly has good matches with Bryan, Punk, ADR and Ziggler, has average matches with Ryback and Orton and has boring to awful matches with Big Show, Kane and Mark Henry.

Like Hogan, he can be carried.

Honestly though, it's his feud quality rather than match quality.

He is (meant to be) the number 1 babyface. To be successful in that role you need to garner cheers and a positive reaction. He garners a negative one. On that basis he's very bad at his job.

I enjoyed the Test/Scott Steiner feud in 2003.

I'm going to stop derailing the thread but it's funny to list how those wrestlers progressed after feuding with Cena who some people actually try and claim 'puts people over' or gives them the rub.

Career went down the toilet:

Ziggler
ADR
Kane
Lauranitis
Ryback

No difference:

ADR
Punk
Rock
Lesnar
Show
Orton

Positive:

Bryan

Who went over him clean, without having to give the win back?

SPOT THE BROTHER IN LAW

Kanes career didn't go "down the toilet", he's just getting old.

The only people Undertaker put over were Brock Lesnar and Vladimir Koslov.

This list is crazy outside of maybe Ryback, if there's any implication at all that working with Cena caused their downfall.

...though I guess you sort of concede that much about ADR by also including him in this list. Of course Rock or Lesnar wouldn't be "getting a rub" from Cena. Same for Show really, he was actually the one who initially elevated Cena years ago.

I guess I have no idea what point you think was made here.

Sorry, mistyped ADR twice, he was definitely meant to go in the 'career in toilet' part.

Spent a year defeating all comers for the World Heavy Title, Cena came back after a month from major surgery, which was acknowledged on TV ("He's fighting with one arm") and squashed ADR clean 2 PPVs in a row.

The John Cena way.

You can't seriously believe that ADR's lack of success is because he worked with Cena.

lol

Kane was out out of action by Mark Henry during his brief unstoppable stage.

Upon his return they made promos for him, he was given a new mask, fans were excited because "THE MONSTER WAS BACK".

This was a serious push for Kane. He destroyed people, most notably Cena's friend Ryder and kidnapped Eve.

Unfortunately Cena+creative wouldn't do the job for Kane over two consecutive PPVs (DCO and then a resounding squash victory for Cena in an ambulance match).

Kane's credibility was shot. They fed him to Orton at Mania (Orton will always do a job for a colleague) but it didn't work.

They had to change him into a comedy character and put him with the hottest wrestler in the company to regain some heat.

In short, a big return of a monster heel lasted 3 months due to Cena.

Blaming Cena for Ziggler's burial is equally LOL

I agree.

I, for one, would like to hear more about how Cena buried the rise of up-and-coming wrestling superstar John Laurinaitis.