**WWE Raw/Smackdown Viewing Thread** - Page 498 - Wrestling -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Tough to gauge whether HBK was a babyface or not for the screwjob win. He was obviously being cheered against in Montreal, but I don't think he had gone full heel yet. He was heel by the end of his reign.

I think HBK was a full heel throughout the period of Late August to Survivor Series 1997, since he was the one that costed the Undertaker (who was face) the WWF title at SummerSlam, which Bret won, which lead the first HITC match in history, and to this day, probably the best.

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07-17-2012 , 06:15 PM

#12427

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 95,991

But that was when HBK swung at heel Bret with a chair and missed and hit the Undertaker, right? There's no way he was already heel just from that moment.

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07-17-2012 , 06:20 PM

#12428

anguyen92

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,598

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

But that was when HBK swung at heel Bret with a chair and missed and hit the Undertaker, right? There's no way he was already heel just from that moment.

You're right, but I would like to think that the following Raws, that HBK would deny certain things like the dick he was in that period.

Also, I guess I would like to think that HBK would be the well-defined heel when he faced Taker at Ground Zero and the HITC match and that he was using Hunter, Chyna, Rick Rude as insurance policies, which lead to the creation of the HITC match. I don't know.

I guess I could say that he was such a dick of a heel when he beated Bulldog for the European title in England, that the crowd probably rioted (then again, Bulldog was a heel in the states).

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07-17-2012 , 06:22 PM

#12429

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

Quote

07-17-2012 , 06:25 PM

#12430

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 95,991

Oh, yeah, if the HITC match with Taker was before the screwjob he was definitely a heel then.

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07-17-2012 , 06:27 PM

#12431

True North

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,703

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

But that was when HBK swung at heel Bret with a chair and missed and hit the Undertaker, right? There's no way he was already heel just from that moment.

He was a heel at least from the moment he formed DX, though, and that was only a week or two after Summerslam IIRC. Even before that, he was getting boos for costing Taker the belt.

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07-17-2012 , 07:50 PM

#12432

Dylan E08

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,177

I don't know if this has been covered already, but word is that Vince is telling some of the legends that will be appearing at Raw 1000 to keep quiet about it. We can only hope that's the reason we haven't hear anything from guys like Stone Cold. Because, as stated many times over, the show would almost most certainly be a waste without him.

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07-17-2012 , 08:55 PM

#12433

ajohnson16

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,466

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

I just want one Rey/Sin Cara Wrestlemania match. Hopefully the two can go without roiding up for a few months so we can see that dream match. The 45 seconds they wrestled each other at a house show was so sick:

This post makes me sad. Nothing personal, it's more a statement of the times than anything. This is considered sick now, but when I compare it to late 90s WCW cruiserweights this just pales in comparison.

Mysterio and Eddie basically paced like this for 15+ minutes in HH 97 (link for those who haven't watched it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MviJfs2Mimc)

It might not be fair to compare it specifically to this match, but curtain jerker cruiserweight matches from 97-98 Nitro crush virtually everything WWE puts out now.

Sad panda.

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07-17-2012 , 09:13 PM

#12434

Wallypop

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 5,189

Didn't Christian win the title then turn heel?

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07-17-2012 , 09:15 PM

#12435

PJo336

THRILLHOUSE!

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22,158

He turned heel BECAUSE he lost it immediately in a match

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07-17-2012 , 09:19 PM

#12436

Wallypop

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 5,189

Right. My bad.

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07-17-2012 , 09:20 PM

#12437

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 95,991

^ That.

Lost it, turned heel, won it, eventually lost it again.

Last edited by LKJ; 07-17-2012 at 09:20 PM. Reason: Slow me, put me out to pasture

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07-18-2012 , 12:45 AM

#12438

Dylan E08

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,177

Another returning legend on SD!

Spoiler:

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07-18-2012 , 10:29 PM

#12439

tpir

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 10,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

...so we ended up with certainly one of the coolest moments that had ever been done on PPV to that point

lol wat. i prefer my pro graps sans ghosts/spirits (unless it is Teddy and His Ghosts from the video game.)

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07-19-2012 , 03:18 AM

#12440

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

Yea, what we need is more "realism"

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07-19-2012 , 06:43 AM

#12441

thebigeasy59

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 19,436

you guys know what the undertaker's gimmick is, right?

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07-19-2012 , 06:50 AM

#12442

dnkyhunter31

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 31,624

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigeasy59

you guys know what the undertaker's gimmick is, right?

American BadAss?

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07-19-2012 , 08:28 AM

#12443

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Booger red?

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07-19-2012 , 09:15 AM

#12444

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigeasy59

you guys know what the undertaker's gimmick is, right?

I do. I think our friend tpir prefers to weak gimmicked wrestlers.

I guess from ~1994+ I understood the realities and the drama of pro wrestling. I don't need/like all the "realistic" garbage.

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07-19-2012 , 10:54 AM

#12445

EMc

EVP of Threads and GM

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,479

If that happened now Id probably hate it.

When that happened i thought it was the coolest ****ing thing. Im 26

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07-19-2012 , 11:00 AM

#12446

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

I could probably actually believe an Undertaker "death" angle these days lol

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07-19-2012 , 12:05 PM

#12447

Dylan

346 days til Christmas

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,607

http://www.wrestling-news.net/exclus...wwe-raw/13081/

^ Spoilers about Raw 1000. Idk how many are true but I really hope the last one is.

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07-19-2012 , 12:06 PM

#12448

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

****, they keep dangling jr out there and snatching him away.

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07-19-2012 , 12:22 PM

#12449

Dylan

346 days til Christmas

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,607

I just really want JR to commentate Punk/Cena. Punk and Cena have never not had an awesome match together, and with JR on commentary it'll be even better. I'm really excited for Raw 1000.