**WWE Raw/Smackdown Viewing Thread** - Page 1768 - Wrestling -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Huge huge difference

This is more like turning punk heel when he's your clear #2 face. I think when Cena gets back there's a really good chance reigns goes heel cuz this is untenable and while cena gets a mixed reaction that is almost universally positive among kids/women, reigns at best gets no reaction and at worst nuclear heat

When Cena comes back, they should just build to a face vs face title match and turn whoever the crowd dislikes more, with the other guy remaining a top of the card babyface for the next two years.

If smark crowds really want to be snarky, they could chant "You're not Cena" at Reigns at Wrestlemania.

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03-29-2016 , 04:34 PM

#44177

.isolated

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This is more like turning punk heel when he's your clear #2 face. I think when Cena gets back there's a really good chance reigns goes heel cuz this is untenable and while cena gets a mixed reaction that is almost universally positive among kids/women, reigns at best gets no reaction and at worst nuclear heat

This won't happen unless they find another person they want as FotC. Cena's clearly on his last legs and has been phased out of the top spot on the card since SummerSlam 2013. There's a decent chance that Cena doesn't even come back as a full time performer.

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03-29-2016 , 04:58 PM

#44178

gusmahler

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All of you who complain about Raw might want to consider going to a PPV only diet of WWE. The PPVs usually have good match quality and they recap the storylines, so you don't miss much by not tuning into Raw.

I was actually Raw/Smackdown free from Summerslam 2015 all the way through Fastlane 2016 and think I enjoyed it more then. If anything big happened on Raw, I would just check out their youtube channel.

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03-29-2016 , 05:01 PM

#44179

PJo336

THRILLHOUSE!

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22,158

Quote:

Originally Posted by gusmahler

I think most of us do this a fair amount, but Jan-March is supposed to be when theyre giving it all they have

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03-29-2016 , 05:48 PM

#44180

StoppedRainingMen

Player Hater of the Year

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 53,703

Quote:

Originally Posted by gusmahler

I was actually Raw/Smackdown free from Summerslam 2015 all the way through Fastlane 2016 and think I enjoyed it more then. If anything big happened on Raw, I would just check out their youtube channel.

this is more or less what i've done. i enjoy reading though

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03-29-2016 , 05:53 PM

#44181

darO

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Lucha Underground is the only weekly wrestling program worth checking out every week

NXT has taken a pretty big step backwards over the last 6 months (BALOR WINS LOL) but its still decent

RAW is a 3 hour flaming pile of aids and SMACKDOWN is a 2 hour clip show of a 3 hour flaming pile of aids

WWE PPVs are normally pretty solid tho

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03-29-2016 , 05:57 PM

#44182

AJD804

banned

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,042

Quote:

Originally Posted by gusmahler

I hear what you are saying, and it's something I have considered, but as a stay at home dad with a 4 and 2 year old, and a wife who works nights, what else is there for me to do on a Monday night?

As for the YouTube thing, one of the factors I am weighing while thinking about cutting the cord from cable, is whether or not the 90 minute Hulu version will be enough. Your statement is telling me it might be, but will the lack of it being live hurt it at all? These are the tough dilemmas I face daily.

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03-29-2016 , 06:55 PM

#44183

moorobot

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Originally Posted by LKJ

No matter the technical merits, a match that the majority of the audience doesn't care about is not very good. That's not a slight to the workers involved, who often put in objectively good ringwork. There are just matches where the workers truly never have a chance to get the crowd THAT engaged for reasons outside their control.

Unlike in '95, people who tune in today know that almost no match result on Raw matters. On rare occasion they actually do something that makes me interested in a match, and it's always because they made the result feel meaningful and unpredictable (the fairly recent HHH/Ziggler match comes to mind). But an overwhelming majority are "this time it doesn't count" matches, and I'm amazed that anyone can ever care much about those.

It seems to me this is mostly a semantic dispute; in my vernacular, "no match result on Raw" mattering and "this time it doesn't count" matches are issues of booking. And the booking in WWE is flat out horrible.

When I say the wrestling is good I mean the ringwork is good. No house show match (outside of Network specials perhaps) in many years has made any pretense of counting for the storyline, yet I would still consider many of them good matches, and house shows draw over a million fans every year.

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03-29-2016 , 06:59 PM

#44184

.isolated

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Originally Posted by gusmahler

I've done this for the past ~3 years. I've recently started watching RAW again because I've been bored. I'll say that part of my watching now is because it's the RtWM and the other part is just to see the reaction to Roman (WWE's sucking me in!). I'm going to watch the RAW after WM but the chances I continue to watch after that are incredibly slim. Perhaps I'll start watching NXT more regularly to see Shinsuke.

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03-29-2016 , 07:14 PM

#44185

moorobot

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Originally Posted by AJD804

Your statement is telling me it might be, but will the lack of it being live hurt it at all?

Wrestling not being live should make a significant difference, but I don't think it will because Raw lacks the anything can happen feel anyway. Everything seems so choreographed, controlled, and scripted.

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03-29-2016 , 07:17 PM

#44186

LKJ

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Quote:

Originally Posted by moorobot

I think I've only been to one house show, and it was nearly two decades ago. I can't really form an opinion about match quality at those shows. I grant that the house show thing is a good counterpoint about how matches can be fun without being meaningful, but meaninglessness still seems like a pretty big hurdle to overcome.

I just know that when I tune into Raw, them putting two great workers out there in a throwaway match really doesn't compel me to pay much more attention than when the match is between two people who I would never want to watch.

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03-29-2016 , 07:44 PM

#44187

moorobot

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I used to love seeing random matches between good workers that I hadn't seen work together before. But WWE has flooded the market with random matches (and some other companies have as well). Compared to, say, the 80s, good stories and promos are just so rare, and good athleticism so common that it loses some of the luster it had when it was more unusual.

Last edited by moorobot; 03-29-2016 at 07:50 PM.

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03-29-2016 , 07:53 PM

#44188

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

just wanna add that lucha undergeround is absolutely a viable alternative for apathetic wwe fans.

and this is coming from a guy who, aside from ECW (if it even falls into this category), has NEVER been able to get into the indy products. i'm not sure why that's been the case because i feel like i value in-ring quality and coherent storytelling over everything else - two things WWE usually lacks. it might be because i have a very hard time getting into taped shows. but anyway lucha is really exceptional stuff and everyone should give it a chance.

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03-29-2016 , 07:56 PM

#44189

darO

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03-29-2016 , 08:08 PM

#44190

JohnBoyWWFC

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 368

Is Lucha Underground something that's shown on US Tv or do people follow it online? And if the latter, how can I do so from Spain?

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03-29-2016 , 08:28 PM

#44191

darO

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Its on El Rey network and iTunes

There are also full eps in dailymotion and torrents if they're territory restricted

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03-29-2016 , 08:58 PM

#44192

Bigdaddydvo

King of the Politics Forum

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 21,304

Quote:

Originally Posted by moorobot

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

House shows are the nuts. I've been to a live Raw, SD, and a PPV (MITB '13), and while I've enjoyed each, with but for the half a dozen or so house shows I've been to it's really all about seeing quality live ringwork stripped of a lot of the TV pretenses. They are also considerably cheaper--I've had great views of the ring in smaller venues in the $20-$30 range. I think what I also appreciate is that I don't think I've ever seen any wresters at house shows every really phone it in even though that would be the natural time to--effort always seemed to be quite good all around. For those who haven't been to a house show I highly recommend it.

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03-30-2016 , 02:38 AM

#44193

El Kabong

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBoyWWFC

Is Lucha Underground something that's shown on US Tv or do people follow it online? And if the latter, how can I do so from Spain?

Just get it from torrents or watchwrestling. The iTunes deal doesn't seem to be in many countries. They have episodes in English and Spanish and actually film promos twice for each language. Production values are insane.

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03-30-2016 , 08:18 AM

#44194

El Kabong

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According to Dave Meltzer of Wrestling Observer Radio, WWE apparently thinks the NXT crowds think differently than the main roster WWE crowds, and officials were expecting Eva Marie to get a positive reaction last night on Raw from fans at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn.
Marie has been consistently booed by the live crowds during her time in NXT, but last night on Raw officials were expecting a different reaction from the Brooklyn crowd when Marie returned to Raw to team up with Team Total Divas.

“How do you not figure this one out?,” Meltzer asked. “That was an easy one.”

This would be hilarious but I'm finding it really hard to believe they thought Brooklyn would pop for her, especially with how the other women on her team reacted.

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03-30-2016 , 09:47 AM

#44195

AJD804

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The guy who was reading the book in the audience during that one Eva Marie match needs to make an appearance on Sunday

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03-30-2016 , 10:00 AM

#44196

moorobot

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The booking of the Divas has been so horrendously bad over recent history that anything is possible. I'm still shocked they figured out likable nice Becky plus unlikable mean Charlotte=good feud. And that is just following the basic premise of half the good wrestling feuds in history.

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03-30-2016 , 10:02 AM

#44197

El Kabong

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That would be good.

Wyatt ringing the bell at the NYSE also made me laugh. The eater of worlds!

http://www.foxsports.com/wwe/story/w...ly-nyse-032916

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03-30-2016 , 11:30 AM

#44198

moorobot

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Wrestlinginc is reporting that Lucha Underground is close to a deal with Hulu. By the way, Wrestlinginc does a good free Raw review on Youtube with a nice contrast in viewpoints that they always do right after Raw (one of the viewpoints is literally Vince Russo, but the other two guys aren't Russo types).

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03-30-2016 , 03:35 PM

#44199

.isolated

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I listened to the LAW review-a-raw podcast and one guy asked "what percent chance does Roman have of turning heel". Answer: "75%" and the other guy said "higher than that". Interesting. I'd put it at 3% or less. It's a different time now and Vince isn't going to look back at Rock and Austin and think he should do that with Roman.

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03-30-2016 , 03:44 PM

#44200

JimHalpert

Howlpert

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 50,746

Love review a wai. Haven't caught this weeks Raw one yet. Surprised to hear those numbers from them. I'm with you on it being low. They weren't discussing moving it to the midcard to avoid boos if they planned on turning him.

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