How stupid are Sasha and Bayley? So instead of being in the WWE at a time women have never been more popular you're gonna throw it all away because you lost a pair of titles that are destined to be hotshotted around?

Yeah that's ridiculous behaviour. I'm surprised Vince didn't fire them on the spot.

I have no idea how anyone criticizes someone who objects to the current "whatever-Vince-makes-up-for-lulz"-method of working at wwe these days.

Srsly - it has to be extremely difficult to work like that. If anything, I wish more of the superstars would start rebelling against it. Vince should've retired 10+ years ago and I'm pretty sure everyone but Vince at WWE agrees with that.

Meh if they really want to make a stand they should do a CM Punk and just quit.

Plus they've been booked pretty decently, are on tv every week, first tag team champs then defended them on the main card of WM and lost to a better team.

Both of them have been heavily pushed and protected since they came up, Sasha got eclipsed by people who were better and Bayley proved she was a product of her very good NXT character arc and has no real substance. They we're very obviously the 4-6 women on the roster depending on what you think of Auska

Like someone like BNB should be upset at vince, Sasha and Bayley, not so much.

Why though? Did CM Punk quitting do anything? Did anything change?

I'm not saying what they're doing will change anything either - I'm just saying that I understand why they'd be frustrated having to work like they do.

And mentioning others who have more right to be upset isn't really helping that side of the argument... quite the opposite.

How about the fact that the Iiconic's run has already been 100x better than Sasha and Bayley's?

You didn't address the fact that they've actually been booked pretty strongly for years. Daniel Bryan lost his title at WM too, should he also be rage "quitting"?

I'm sure they can go to AEW, where everyone will be a top star and nobody will ever lose

How about the fact that BNB got shut down for no good reason?

Srsly - what does the Iiconics have to do with this debate? Do you think Sasha and Bailey would be throwing a tantrum if it them losing the title was the plan all along?

I fully agree that Bailey has no place anywhere near a title in WWE - that's not the point though.

The problem here is Vince making **** up as he goes along and not giving his talent any say. He gave the Streak to Brock half an hour before that match. I would be very surprised if the same wasn't the case when Angle lost to Corbin because that made no sense either.

I agree that BNB has a legit bone to pick

I also think Sasha and Bayley do not and are being gigantic unprofessional babies over going under and losing a title that is brand new to a team that actually needed it.

My point is - would they be throwing a tantrum if that was the plan though?

I fully support the Iiconics as new champs, but I don't think that's the point.

And yes, there are others way more deserving of throwing a hissy fit than S&B, but again, that's not the point.

Isn't what they're complaining about what we've all been complaining about for years now?

Yes, Iiconics as champs is a good thing, but it's not good in a "oh great, all is right in the world now"-way. It's good because one of Vinces knee-jerk reactions worked out. That one did. Most of them don't.

If I were Bayley and Sasha I think they are doing the right thing. They are top talent and they are making it known they are unhappy and have options to leave. As much as I love Alexa Bliss she really shouldn't be going over either of them on a regular basis which she always has.

I also don't think the Iconics as a team is a bad way to go with the championships but if they leave fair play to them. I think they are two wrestlers that would be great in a place like AEW and they have both been crap in WWE for a long time.

I see what you're saying but even if it was a Vince knee-jerk reaction, lying on the floor and chucking tantrums is not how someone in a professional environment should deal with conflict and pretty much inexcusable, I don't care what the industry or situation is. It doesn't help that Sasha has a reputation of being an ass hole and treating talent that she doesn't think "deserves it" like ****. The Lana, Nia and Alexa beefs were all very public and well known. This feels more like typical Sasha rather than a legit gripe someone like BNB had. BNB was over big time, Sasha and Bailey have been getting luke warm reactions for a long time. Compare their recent work to other women on the roster and they just don't stand out anymore.

Also Rusev is still the best.

I can understand being fed up there's no real direction with either of their characters but lol @ getting upset over losing those titles. Illonics really needed a win and losing that is whatever to both of them.

ROH had a runin with enzo/cass to fight with I guess bubba ray and whoever and didn't bother telling the NJPW team in the ring about it. Now that's a good reason to get pissed, if they weren't well known and they're rushing the ring ya know...

Bayley is a JTTS face role and she achieved more than she really should've in the WWE.

lol @ angle losing to corbin making no sense. You always put the talent over when you leave.

I read somewhere that she was pissed that they weren’t told about the title drop until the day of Mania. Her thoughts were that they should of had a long run with the belts to give them a shot at some respectability. She felt that now they are in the hands of what is pretty much a comedy act will kill the titles.

If that is accurate, I can’t really find fault with her line of thinking.

I think she's just frustrated that she got left behind for a mania main event when she considers herself one of the group of 4. She had the first ppv main event and the first hell in a cell and was on top of the world. Then due to a combination of injuries to herself, giving injuries to other people, Ronda coming in, and the rise of Becky, she found herself on the outside. It must have hurt to watch other people get something she wanted. Then on top of it she's in a pointless 4 team match for new titles. Can't be happy with your spot there if you think you're capable of more.

With that said, throwing a fit because you lost the titles is different. That's not about the spot you're in. It's about being a mark for yourself (good story in a jericho book about how sometimes wrestlers themselves forget that the titles don't really matter) as well as bringing down and diminishing your coworkers who had a nice moment. It's a bad look and I'm less of a fan of hers than I was before this.

The problem with both is that there hasn't been any character development since NXT. I'm not really sure who the blame goes to for that (I think both have proven to be limited at promos), but fans want to see characters go on journeys and evolve. I don't think creative helped much with that awful start/stop feud last year, the Alexa/Bayley feud, etc.

That said, it's not at all clear to me that either is in a worse spot than Becky was in last year when she was tapping out to Carmella and not even being featured on TV much. I think Sasha is like a heel turn away (presumably in a feud with Becky) from being a star again. Bayley I'm less sure of.

I know they're great friends IRL, but I also never really bought their characters as being friends with each other so the whole tag team thing was kind of meh.

It appears highly likely that AEW will have a two-hour weeknight prime time TV spot on TBS or TNT starting in October. It could potentially be a different network (one other network has bid on AEW, don't know which one), but the two-hour weekly show starting in the fall seems pretty close to a done deal.

I know nobody has been posting about AEW or NJPW much lately (the indy thread is all but dead), but I felt like that was big enough to mention.

It's big enough for sure. I might try to get into it seeing as how I was barely watching before Ronda and Brock left. But as Dar0 subtly hinted at yesterday, even if AEW gets all the talent in the world, smarks are going to be disappointed because not every one can get pushed at the same time. It seems like other forums forget this fact and it's leading to unrealistic expectations by hardcore fans. I also can't imagine anyone but people who are already fans get invested in wrestling. It's a different time and WWE has this locked up. It'll be fun to see what happens.

If done right, losses can develop and "elevate" a talent just as much as wins.

I'm not saying that will be the case all the time in AEW (or anywhere).

I remain cautiously optimistic about AEW. I think I'm more optimistic than most here.

This is how I feel. I don't think that them being successful is them competing with WWE because that's very unlikely for a long while. Just getting some new eyes on the product and losing less than they expect to would be success.

dolph, Rusev, BNB, Ryder, cm punk, ryback, Roman, Bryan, nexus

Vince has ruined so many things that have gotten over on whims or out of spite that I refuse to go against the wrestler in situations like this unless it’s truly egregious

To be fair, the only way he “ruined” Ryder was trotting him out there as a legit centerpiece of the show for a while, which exposed how limited he was. Pretty different from those other examples.

Wait-- so the War Raiders, which was changed to war machine, are now the Viking Experience? And they have new individual names?