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Old 12-12-2014, 05:43 AM   #2551
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

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Yeah most people reported that Vince changed the result on the day.
If so, that is amazingly stupid, even by Vince' standards.
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Old 12-12-2014, 07:28 AM   #2552
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Some more stuff from Melzter.

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Apparently Vince McMahon made the call for Charlotte to lose. It’s been said that if Triple H had his way, Charlotte wouldn’t have lost on Monday.

When the idea was for the two to compete in a tag-team match, it was Charlotte who was scheduled to score the pin for her team. When it was changed to a singles match, Natalya reportedly asked to lose the match, feeling it was the right thing to do.

McMahon ultimately decided for Natalya to win and it’s said that Triple H defended the idea in a sense, bringing up the timing issues and noting that in six months when they bring Charlotte back to the main roster, no one will remember that any of this happened.
Standard WWE. They treat their audience like idiots and it's insulting.

edit: Also lol TNA. Jim Ross wants to form a business relationship and they turn him down.

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Tenay was interested in joining Jim Ross in calling the January 4th New Japan Pro Wrestling Kingdom 9 PPV from Tokyo Japan. Jim Ross called TNA’s John Gaburick (and is rumored to have spoken to Dixie Carter as well) about getting approval for Tenay to work Wrestle Kingdom 9. Ross pitched the idea of plugging TNA on the show in exchange for approval to use Tenay, but they turned him down.
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Old 12-12-2014, 07:32 AM   #2553
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

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If so, that is amazingly stupid, even by Vince' standards.
Nah it's all good, everyone will forget that Taker lost in 6 months anyway.
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Old 12-12-2014, 08:08 AM   #2554
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

I find it ironic that Jim Ross's commentary is so good that it can be applied to anything and is, yet Vince McMahon couldn't control his control freak and let JR do his thing.
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Old 12-12-2014, 09:04 AM   #2555
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

I stand corrected re: the Taker result. If it's true that Vince switched the result the day of the event, holy ****. Results being changed the day of a PPV shouldn't happen nearly as often as it sounds like it does. Just decide on a result at the time you decide to have the match at all, then see it through. Unfortunately somewhere along the way, some little compartment in Vince's brain passed legislation that outlawed planning ahead, so here we are.
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Old 12-12-2014, 09:27 AM   #2556
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Yeah I find it insane that they book and promote matches they don't know how to finish. It feels like there hasn't been an interesting story with a satisfying conclusion in a very long time. Even Bryan's epic WM run was thrown together at the last minute. I thought Bryan's run to the title was genius because I thought it was all a work. Punk confirming it wasn't made my head explode.
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Old 12-12-2014, 12:20 PM   #2557
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Sorry dids, Reigns sucks
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Old 12-12-2014, 12:38 PM   #2558
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Was not happy to see Roman on NXT. They really are trying too hard.

Still think he's fine in ring.

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Standard WWE. They treat their audience like idiots and it's insulting.
To be fair- a lot of their audience ARE idiots.

To to be more charitable- they're people who don't follow the product so closely that W/L records and matches they won't remember 3 months later when Charlotte debuts really matter that much (and they know the more aware fans who care about Charlotte aren't going to stop caring because of this).

It's not good storytelling, and it's dumb, and sad reflection of the broader issues in the company- but specifically for Charlotte's sake I don't think it was that bad at all. She still got big pops, they sold the Rick's daughter stuff, which was probably the best way to connect her to a WWE crowd.
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Old 12-12-2014, 12:42 PM   #2559
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

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Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
Yeah I find it insane that they book and promote matches they don't know how to finish. It feels like there hasn't been an interesting story with a satisfying conclusion in a very long time. Even Bryan's epic WM run was thrown together at the last minute. I thought Bryan's run to the title was genius because I thought it was all a work. Punk confirming it wasn't made my head explode.
One of the funnier forgotten parts of that whole mess where they were going to just do Orton-Batista was the incredibly tone-deaf bit where they sent Rey Mysterio Jr. out 30th for the Rumble. They got him booed out of the building when they didn't possibly intend for that to happen, and somehow were just blissfully unaware that it would even though it was easily foreseeable.
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Old 12-12-2014, 12:53 PM   #2560
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Yeah- I'm having to realize that what I once believed/wanted to believe/thought pretty much had to be deliberate planning in terms of Mania XXX was mostly blind luck.

There was always this rumor that nobody's ever shouted down that RAW's writer got fired about when things turned bad post-Mania and it seems like maybe that had a lot more impact than I imagined.

The other "they're doing this real bad" thing is how much of a wasted opportunity they have with the Network and not doing more live out-of-the-ring programming. Peter Rosenberg keeps basically yelling at them for not giving him a talk show on the network, and he's right. (even if it's not him, that's a thing that should exist). Having the network just be a tape library is a waste.
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Old 12-12-2014, 12:55 PM   #2561
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

WWE does some long term planning. Punk was told over and over by several different people to make Roman Reigns look "Really, really strong!" in a match with the Shield...



Charlotte's shtick reminded me of this promo. Not that I could ever really forget something this good, but it seems like they are emphasizing this "Golden Spoon" aspect of Ric when deciding what to have her 'borrow'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5DIjKEAnXQ

Last edited by moorobot; 12-12-2014 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:05 PM   #2562
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

i honestly think a lot of the reigns push is built around the reaction when he was one of the last 2 in the rumble. which of course is idiotic since it wasn't a pro-reigns reaction as much as it was anti-bootista
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:23 PM   #2563
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

It isn't Roman's ring or mic work, so I've long thought it is because Vince gets this look on his face when he sees Reigns:


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Old 12-12-2014, 02:38 PM   #2564
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Reigns definitely has 'the look' plus the Rock connection. And he could very well get better in the ring but mic skills is something you either have or you don't, and Reigns isn't even close to capable on it

I feel like Reigns' best case scenario (and probably best use) is monster #1 heel with Heyman managing him (basically new, everyday Bork)
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:47 PM   #2565
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Roman was getting pretty great crowd responses throughout the end of Shield's run. In terms of fan reaction then it made sense to push him hard. They just needed to slow down once those pops diminished during his solo push and his solo matches got real boring.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:10 PM   #2566
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Pro play would've been to have Rollins turn on the authority in the survivor series match and say that he was just working undercover for the shield to get rid of the authority all along - thus bringing the shield back together because they should've realized by then that only one of them would do well on his own.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:49 PM   #2567
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

You don't have to be great on the mic to be a top face. But you do the way WWE does things. You have to either be able to talk live and talk a lot or have a manager talk for you.

So Roman's upside probably is as a heel indeed in this company. But Reigns isn't the only guy in the company with a great look, bad mic skills, and middling ring work. Ryback and Big E for example. Rusev could fit this but his ring work is perhaps better. The only real edge Reigns has on those guys is that he is more handsome. But that is only an edge for a face or a cool cocky type heel.

Ultimately I think Reigns is an overvalued piece. He's not an exceptional talent. He got great reactions in no small part because the Shield was written and booked so much better than most of the rest of the main roster. Ideally he's a monster guy in a stable and you have several clearly better individual performers.
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Old 12-12-2014, 05:18 PM   #2568
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

it's pretty clear that Reigns is the second coming of Batista. The powerhouse who works best in the heel enforcer role but can easily be the top babyface of a weak roster. Reigns is younger and better looking than Batista, so he'll probably do better in the face role. His mic skills will get better over time.

Reigns = Batista/Cena hybrid
Rollins = HHH/HBK hybrid
Ambrose = Bret Hart/Foley

Shield are the future of WWE. But WWE roster is booked so weak these guys are going to get overexposed, causing fans to get sick of them.

There needs to be a new -

Undertaker
Flair
Jeff Hardy
Stone Cold (Punk was Austin/Macho Man hybrid but he's gone)
Hulk Hogan
Macho Man
RVD
Rey Mysterio
Kurt Angle
Benoit
Jake the Snake
Giant Gonzalez
King Mabel
Big Daddy Cool

WWE is banking on a select few guys to carry the entire roster??? nobody else gets booked strong!! None of the guys on this list would have made it in WWE in the year 2014. This is precisely the problem and WWE cant even see it. They put all of the focus on a few guys and people will rightfully get sick of them. The Undertaker would not have had the "right look" if he were a newcomer today because he's not ripped and good looking.

I understand you can't push 20 guys at the same time. I got it. So how did WWE create many stars int he past when they had only a few main superstars? they did it by putting as much effort into mid-card storylines as they gave the upper card. The old cards used to have meaning from top to bottm. Now it's all about focusing on building to two or three matches every PPV and the rest is nonsense jumbled together at the last minute. ****ing idiots running this product.
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Old 12-12-2014, 05:26 PM   #2569
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

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You don't have to be great on the mic to be a top face. But you do the way WWE does things. You have to either be able to talk live and talk a lot or have a manager talk for you.

So Roman's upside probably is as a heel indeed in this company. But Reigns isn't the only guy in the company with a great look, bad mic skills, and middling ring work. Ryback and Big E for example. Rusev could fit this but his ring work is perhaps better. The only real edge Reigns has on those guys is that he is more handsome. But that is only an edge for a face or a cool cocky type heel.

Ultimately I think Reigns is an overvalued piece. He's not an exceptional talent. He got great reactions in no small part because the Shield was written and booked so much better than most of the rest of the main roster. Ideally he's a monster guy in a stable and you have several clearly better individual performers.
Yeah, there are guys that get over without saying a word. The hottest year of Sting's career he never talked once. Kane, Undertaker were top stars who never spoke.

As far as Charlotte, she had to lose. You show up on Raw wearing a belt it's policy that you have to job. Vince wasn't going to break that for Charlotte.
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Old 12-12-2014, 08:16 PM   #2570
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

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Giant Gonzalez
King Mabel
Big Daddy Cool
.
Never go full Irridium dog.
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:07 AM   #2571
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

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But Reigns isn't the only guy in the company with a great look, bad mic skills, and middling ring work. Ryback and Big E for example.
I think Big E can be great on the mic and in the ring, he has just fallen into WWE's trap of not knowing how to build interesting big guys. His work in FCW and NXT was awesome. Someone posted a compilation of his mic work not long ago, it's worth checking out.
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Old 12-13-2014, 09:15 AM   #2572
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

If Big E is better than Reigns it just makes it uglier that Reings is getting this push.

Generally it seems they switch around guys too fast, in line with the theme of myopic thinking. Exaggerating, the judgment process seems to be "Are they as big as the Rock instantly? No. So repackage or remove from the storylines."
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Old 12-13-2014, 09:55 AM   #2573
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Has Sting been on WWE programming since Survivor Series?
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Old 12-13-2014, 10:07 AM   #2574
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

No.
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:35 AM   #2575
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Re: Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk)

Reigns is doing fine. If he wasn't forced into a top babyface role due to events outside his control at the end of Shield no one would be talking dumb about him being terrible. He started in the WWE which is why he works the way he does and he delivers what the majority of fans want. He doesn't need to be a great talker, his size and overness is enough. At least he isn't doing that stupid Rock thing of bouncing from ****ty catchphrase to ****tier catchphrase trying to find something goofy to stick.

Btw in terms of "there needs to be a new:" discussion Ambrose is one good story from being the new Stone Cold, Kalisto is the new Mysterio and Bryan is the new Benoit at least as far as being held back despite being really over. He is like one bad decision away from trying to make the US title relevant feuding with whoever the new MVP is (Rose imo).
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