Well done sir, well done

Reigns beats up HHH because Reigns has no friends and therefore didn't having anyone out there to prevent a completely legal interference. What a great hero for all the kids.

I thought her screaming "he's not even blinking!" after HHH went through the table was fantastic.

I don't think we can complain about this and then complain when he's too cookie cutter too. I'm fine with him having an edge and an attitude. Austin or Rock would have taken a chair to everyone too and we would have loved it. Squeaky clean faces are boring. It works for very few people that can do it really well (Sami Zayn), but I'd rather see him pissed off than cracking bad jokes.

Fortunately you will get both.

Rock and Austin were getting screwed. Reigns isn't. He is losing fair and square according to neutral rules.

Yeah, on another forum, I equated it with Hogan when he lost to heels in the late 80's/early 90's and threw a tantrum by going back in the ring and clearing it out or like in the 89 Rumble when The Twin Towers eliminated him and then he went ballistic on them. It's no different than that. He has nothing to be upset about because he should've expected it and had his own friends ready to deal with it (in kayfabe ofc because we all know why they didn't in reality). He just looks like a schmuck and then he's going to have 10-20 minute story time on RAW later tonight killing any momentum he may have.

They're going to fire Roman but he's still going to turn up each week causing havoc until HHH finally gives him a match for his job and a shot at the title because why wouldn't you try and mix the DB, Punk and Stone Cold formulas into one at this stage.

I'll use a poker analogy since this is a poker forum. He didn't lose fair and square as you claim, he had an angle shot on him. I don't think anyone in this forum that would just shrug their shoulders and say "Oh well" if they lost a giant pot because someone shot an angle on them.

My question for everyone is, how was it cool for Lesnar to wreck shop when he lost his title the night after WM, but this was stupid and made no sense?

Roman had the opportunity to make it a protected pot, though. His smugness didn't allow him to take that insurance.

Rusev GOAT

The worst thing Hogan did was pulling Sid out of the Royal Rumble for no good reason. That was incredibly heelish and made no sense.

Roman kinda got screwed last night even though it was within the rules of that match. I like him going off on everyone and don't think it makes him a heel. True, it would have been better if HHH/Authority had actually done something heelish in the last 6 months.

As far as Austin/Rock being screwed. The best Raw I've ever gone to in person was the first night Austin stunned McMahon. There was no good reason for it as Vince was months off from turning heel, but the crowd went nuts. Austin would stun people and attack them (heels or faces) at the drop of a hat. He used to stun Foley all the time when they were tag partners.

There's a difference between how Reigns acted last night and how Charlotte acted. One's actions are easily construed as heel-like. The other was just pissed off.

The difference is that Stone Cold's character had depth. By the time Stone Cold got to the point where he was stunning McMahon and doing other "heel" things we already completely understood his motivations and his character was already established as a guy that fight aggressively for things he believed in and wouldn't be held back by anyone regardless of whether that person standing in his was was face or heel.

No characters these days have any depth. They sort of just go out there and do stuff and we rarely get a backstage promo explanation for their actions nor do the announcers speculate. I remember awhile back someone posted a really awesome Ryback promo where he explained why he originally turned heel and why he returned to being a good guy. It was a great, thoughtful promo but obviously something that was only available on the app or whatever.

So when we see characters do something nowadays like a Roman ruthlessly beating people up for no reason it's sort of like reading Robin Hood and just flipping directly to the page where he's robbing people and not knowing that he's giving it back to the poor.

WHOA WHOA WHOA wait a minute. Are you saying that the booking strategy of answering "why should we like this guy" with "because we told you to" isn't optimal?

IDK, I think the idea that Roman is sick of losing the big one under legal, but dubious circumstances then ultimately snapping makes perfect sense. It doesn't make him a good guy in the John Cena sense, but there is absolutely 0 reason Reigns should be booked like Cena.

Mostly agree with darO, though HHH being the primary target of his rage is fairly weird. Unless it's happened during shows I haven't watched, HHH isn't really one of the people who has ****ed with him that much.

The only problem I had with last night was how long it took Reigns to attack HHH after he came into the ring. If a man truly snapped, then he wouldn't have deliberated as long when deciding to start swinging. I also think having him spear HHH at Survivor Series was a bad idea, because there was no real reason for it. I thought a dismissive wave of the hand and then turning around into a brogue kick would have accomplished the same thing.

My hope for tonight is that they make Ronan go away for a while. Maybe not even have him speak or show up. Just suspend him and then bring him back after the new year. Of course with that said we will probably get av20 min opening promo from him with a suffering succotash, magic beans, a tater tots reference in it.

The problem with the HHH/League of Nations connection is that it's all done with a nod and a wink. Someone with absolutely no knowledge of wrestling since WM 31 would have little idea why HHH is considered a heel. The only heelish thing he's done wrt to the League is celebrate with Sheamus when he won the title. But he wanted to celebrate with Roman also.

But once you realize how heelish the Authority used to be, you can see why Roman hates HHH.

It just seems that WWE wants The Authority to have a lesser on-screen role, but at the same time make them the force behind the League. Which really isn't possible.

That said, the match between Roman and Sheamus was better than I thought it would be. And I really liked the Superman punch off the ladder sending Sheamus through the table spot.

The League interference was fine during the match but it became odd when they weren't around when Roman attacked HHH. I get that he attacked Sheamus with the chair and put him out of commission. But he didn't do anything dastardly to Rusev or ADR. One or both of them should have been able to get up by the time Roman attacked HHH.

The story with Austin and McMahon at first was that Vince wouldn't let him wrestle claiming he was physically unable. And as Austin was by far the best thing on the show, at a reality or implied level, Vince doing that is an enormously heelish thing to do, because it keeps the fans from seeing the person they most want to wrestle actually wrestle. Of course the crowd will go nuts in that situation. Austin wasn't really the best example for the kids either, but he had an amazing, consistent, and believable character. Roman isn't amazing as a personality and doesn't have a consistent or believable character; they just bounce him around to all sorts of things that he isn't, from joking to crying to rage, in an attempt to force him to be over.

I'm cool with seeing "Ronan" go away for a while. The problem with this is that they wrote HHH off of RAW tonight so it's almost a certainty that either Steph and Roman open the show or Roman opens the show by himself.

Yeah, that made absolutely no sense. HHH just wanted him to shake his hand and apparently, that was an incredibly heelish move to Reigns.

If you go back to that show (Sept '97) Vince wasn't heelish at all. He expressed concern for Austin's well being. He gave a very compassionate speech and Austin stunned him.

And you're right, Austin wasn't a squeaky clean role model for kids, but I don't think Roman is built that way either. They should let him evolve into whatever he started to become last night because right now I don't think any group is getting fully behind him. Bring up Sami and let him be the role model. It fits him better and he does it well. You can have both as top stars, it's just that WWE doesn't understand that.

I know that Vince was acting 'nice' in the storyline, but it was clear the company knew Austin was over as a face, and that they knew that stunner would get a huge face reaction. The underlying message was that Vince was keeping the fans from what they wanted. Austin was the anti-hero, Vince was the anti-villain.

Personally, I'm probably never going to buy anti-company, anti-the Authority Roman. It is casting the midget from Austin Powers as Thor. Austin and Bryan weren't brought in to be top stars. They were brought in as mechanics They weren't the prototype of what the company wants. Roman is; he has the look and size that are exactly what they want, and they've been working towards making him the man for years in spite of resistance.

To me, it was never a problem that Cena was 'squeaky clean'. In fact I thought he was too heelish at times when other times he was the Make A Wish face. But him against the authority just never did anything for me because it isn't believable. And it is even less believable in Roman's case.

I agree that Roman shouldn't be squeaky clean. Because he isn't. But he should not be feuding with 'the authority' either.