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Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap

12-10-2015 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated
I see. I wasn't watching back then and always thought HBK did those bumps just because he had to job to Hogan. Didn't know any of the other parts to it.
I wasn't watching either, I had heard a couple podcasts referencing it during the summer because it was the 10th anniversary of it and decided to do a little investigating
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
12-10-2015 , 05:08 PM
Hogan casting a Hogan-sized shadow over almost every success that Randy Savage ever had in wrestling during the course of nearly a decade was significantly more offensive to me than him acting sad over losing the title to Warrior.

Seriously, watch the ending of WW3 1995 and the stuff after the match, and it's just infuriating because it really felt like we were watching the shoot version of Hogan operating. It's sort of like how I had legitimate contempt for the DX guys because I'm convinced that they weren't doing much acting.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
12-10-2015 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
Hogan casting a Hogan-sized shadow over almost every success that Randy Savage ever had in wrestling during the course of nearly a decade was significantly more offensive to me than him acting sad over losing the title to Warrior.

Seriously, watch the ending of WW3 1995 and the stuff after the match, and it's just infuriating because it really felt like we were watching the shoot version of Hogan operating. It's sort of like how I had legitimate contempt for the DX guys because I'm convinced that they weren't doing much acting.
The kids are watching Blues Clues right now, so I will go and watch it now. Mentioning that did remind me of the end of WM IV which is another Hogan moment
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12-10-2015 , 05:33 PM
idk about that. Anytime I think about WM IV, I think of this and I imagine the majority do as well:

[IMG]http://www.wrestl*****.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Randy-Savage-and-Miss-Elizabeth-celebrate-at-Wrestlemania-IV.jpg[/IMG]
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12-10-2015 , 05:59 PM
When Hogan was still in the WWF in the 90s, he cut a promo in Japan burying the WWF title and saying the Japanese title he was going for was the only world title. Meltzer reported this, and Hogan denied it and tried to get Meltzer in trouble, not realizing Meltzer had been sent a tape of the promo.
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12-10-2015 , 06:05 PM
Holy ****!! I'm only to the part of the battle royal where they all get into one ring, but this is one of the worst things I've ever seen. I have thoughts but I'll re read your write up to make sure I don't repeat the same things. I'm going to try and watch the rest of this now.
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12-10-2015 , 06:18 PM
I definitely don't advise watching that whole match. I was just advising watching the ending and aftermath.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
12-10-2015 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
I definitely don't advise watching that whole match. I was just advising watching the ending and aftermath.
Too late, it's already over, and it was as bad as I've ever seen. At one point 4 people were trying to eliminate Hogan and at least two of them were actually holding on to him so he would fall to the floor.

Anyway, yeah that was a lot worse than WM VI. **** Hulk Hogan!
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12-10-2015 , 06:55 PM
And remember, they were only fighting over the vacant World Title there because Hogan slid it off in a bull**** disqualification rather than letting himself get pinned, however dirty.

So in kayfabe, the fact that Hogan had the belt vacated was Hogan getting screwed, and then the fact that he didn't get it back was him getting screwed again, even at the expense of just crapping all over another babyface's win. The next night on Nitro was just a sequel of Hogan doing more of the same that he did after the WW3 match.

It was awful. Babyface WCW Hogan was the absolute worst thing in the world. And I say that as someone who is more likely than most internet smarks to at least defend Hogan as a performer.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
12-10-2015 , 07:56 PM
June 3, 1996

NITRO

Asheville, NC

Same as last week, we start on a broadcast team of Tony Schiavone and Larry Zbyszko. Tonight's main event is a Tag Team Title match, with Lex Luger and Sting defending against the Steiner Brothers. Tony says that rumors persist that Bobby Heenan will manage Ric Flair and Arn Anderson at the Great American Bash for their match against Mongo McMichael and Kevin Greene.

They show highlights of Shark being jumped (in a more literal way than would happen later in WCW) and having half his head shaved last week, and then they send it to Mean Gene, who introduces Shark. He comes out in plain black and blue tights, no shark-like graphics on them. He also enters by only showing the camera his good side. Once he turns, he reveals that he isn't shaving the other half off to even out his hair like a normal person would do. He says he's keeping it half-shaved as motivation, to summon more anger against Jimmy Hart and Big Bubba.



He launches into a promo that my friends and I made fun of for a very long time after. "I'm not a shark. I'm not a fish. I'm not an avalanche. I'm a man. John Tenta. A 500-pound man. I'm gonna hurt the man that did this to me, and then I'm gonna shave the head of The Giant, and then he'll feel the embarrassment that I felt." I mean…if you just take it straight, it's really not too bad. But there's a ton (or at least a quarter-ton) of unintentional comedy in him saying all of those things earnestly. Regardless of whether I was enjoying it ironically or sincerely, I did enjoy it.

John Tenta vs. Big Bubba (w/ Jimmy Hart): Tenta hits the ring, instantly attacks, throws a powerslam, then picks up a pair of scissors off the mat and takes a run at Bubba. Bubba correctly bails out and takes a countout since there's an angry man wielding scissors at him. John Tenta is the new Sid, I guess. The crowd gave an okay reaction to the Tenta face turn. The match was over and done within 60 seconds, so not much to comment on there.



Result: John Tenta via countout

High Voltage vs. The Faces of Fear: High Voltage are another team I would not have expected to see on Monday nights, even with the expansion to two hours. IIRC they're prospects from the WCW Power Plant like Bobby Walker was, and I mostly only remember them wrestling on WCW Saturday Night. Belly-to-belly by Barbarian off the top, followed by a double headbutt by both Faces of Fear and a savate kick by Meng for the pin. The announcers put this team over hard; it was a well-executed squash match.



Result: Faces of Fear via pinfall

Sting and Lex Luger in a backstage interview with Mean Gene. Luger tries to play dumb with regard to any misconduct toward the Steiners last week even though he largely started the whole mess that caused the match to break down. Sting shows understanding of the Steiners' viewpoint, but then the Steiners interrupt, angry words are exchanged, and Sting backs Lex. Scott Steiner is less understandable than Ahmed Johnson here, but this is still a great little hype segment to really make me look forward to tonight's main event. It devolves into some shoving before the two sides break it up.



They send it into commercial with a brief Hulk Hogan highlight reel posing as an advertisement for this show that we're already watching. …

Disco Inferno vs. Sgt. Craig Pittman (w/ Teddy Long): This crowd has a lot of intensely dorky people who decided to dance along with Disco's entrance. This is another really short match. Pittman controls the action, musses Disco's hair at one point, and is about to go for his armbar finisher when referee Nick Patrick breaks the hold and signals for the bell. He raises Pittman's hand and it gets announced that Pittman won by submission. Apparently Disco submitted in advance of being put in the hold because he didn't want to risk it. He gets up close to the camera and says, "See that? If I would have let him get me in that thing, then I wouldn't be able to do this anymore <portrays dance move> or this anymore <portrays another one>. I'm too smart for that." Disco was a good comedy heel. I had always wondered if anyone had ever actively submitted in a match while not in a submission hold.



Result: Sgt. Craig Pittman via submission

They show a clip of Steven Regal and Sting from WCW this past weekend, with Regal calling Sting "Sunshine" and backhanding the **** out of him to knock him over in a backstage segment. Elite. Tony Schiavone says that Sting vs. Regal has been set for Great American Bash.

Lord Steven Regal (w/ Jeeves) vs. Hacksaw Jim Duggan: Perhaps the biggest downside of two-hour Nitro is that we'll see Hacksaw Jim Duggan more often. Duggan controls the early action with punches and clotheslines, Regal takes a break outside and is able to get control upon his return, but finds himself fending off another Duggan onslaught when Regal's Blueblood buddies get on the apron and start running distraction. Duggan hits the running clothesline out of the three-point stance, and is going to follow by grabbing the 2x4 for some reason, but Squire David Taylor takes the board away, Duggan tapes his fists and then goes and clocks Bobby Eaton, and Regal takes advantage of the distraction to win with a schoolboy. That's a shameful amount of overbooking in order to get to the simple result of Duggan putting Steven Regal over, which he should be doing 100% clean every single time and especially when Regal is being pushed into a PPV match against Sting.

Result: Lord Steven Regal via pinfall

Time for another in-ring Regal promo. Mean Gene says that Regal was fined heavily for smacking Sting on the weekend show. Regal says yes, he was fined more than these fans would make in a year, and that his response was to pay double the fine so now he's operating "in bloody credit." They show Regal's backhand of Sting again, and Regal finishes off an anti-Sting promo.



After commercial, we get a recap of the weekend build that's been happening for Kevin Sullivan vs. Chris Benoit. They basically just kept having confrontations on WCW Saturday Night. Then Sullivan seemed to enable Public Enemy to put Benoit through a table at Slamboree. This past Saturday, Sullivan vows to do Ric Flair and Arn Anderson a favor and squash Benoit, "the serpent in the egg," with Sullivan adding that if he doesn't do it now then one day Benoit will turn on them and will want to be the enforcer of the Horsemen himself.

The Taskmaster (w/ Jimmy Hart) vs. Prince Iaukea: Tony Schiavone says that this is Iaukea's Nitro debut. It's quite an auspicious debut, as he jobs in 60-90 seconds to The Taskmaster's double stomp.

Result: The Taskmaster via pinfall

Mean Gene with Taskmaster and Jimmy. Jimmy says that he doesn't understand why Sullivan insists on binding them to the Horsemen; he says they have everything they need in the Dungeon of Doom. Sullivan says that Hulk Hogan will be back, and that they need to be prepared to take him on. He turns the attention to Benoit, saying he'll force Benoit into quitting and going home just like he did with Brian Pillman.



After a break, we get the return and the Nitro debut of one of the GOAT tag teams, now looking about 60 years old, The Rock 'n Roll Express. Amazingly, both were still in their 30s as of this picture.



The Rock 'n Roll Express vs. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson: Flair and Anderson come out wearing Kevin Greene and Mongo McMichael jerseys. Odd moment: Arn must have worn a jersey that was about two sizes too small, because Woman has to pull with all of her might to help him take it off to wrestle. This match is already under way when we hit the one-hour mark of the show, which triggers Tony and Larry to send it to Eric Bischoff and Bobby Heenan, and a ton of pyro goes off in mid-match. Weird.

Bischoff asks Heenan if he's going to manage Flair and Anderson at GAB. Heenan passes on answering, says he'll answer when the time is right later. Tag team match had been a bit sleepy, but there's a hot sequence that culminates in Robert Gibson and Ricky Morton slapping on simultaneous figure-fours on the Horsemen that the crowd pops big for. In general though, this match is mostly leaving me bored. It got far more time than every other match so far tonight, and it hasn't really justified the extended ring time. Bobby Heenan suddenly up and leaves the broadcast table without explanation in mid-match and heads to ringside. He passes along instructions to Liz and Woman and then leaves.

After an extended heat segment, Morton hot tags to Gibson, the Rock 'n Rolls hit double dropkicks on both Horsemen, but Liz runs distraction while Woman gets physically involved and rakes Gibson's eyes, and during this sequence Arn Anderson plants Gibson with a DDT. Flair gets the three-count.



Result: Ric Flair & Arn Anderson via pinfall

Heenan joins the party at ringside with a glass of champagne. Mean Gene gets a word with Arn. "Apparently I'm too big and thick to play pro football, because McMichael's jersey had my chest growing out of the neck of it. My kid, who's 10, would have barely gotten that shirt over his head. … Not only are we tougher, better athletes…apparently we're way too big." Of all the ways for Arn to put himself over in a comparison with the football players, pretending to be more physically imposing than Greene or Mongo was a super weird choice. Flair says that the football jerseys were a gift from Debra McMichael. He cuts a frenzied promo, and then points at Heenan and says "the coup de grace is now."

Mean Gene asks Bobby if he's going to manage Flair and Anderson at Great American Bash. Bobby says that nobody there but him knows the answer, then starts into it. He says that since he retired, he's had people throwing money and offers at him constantly to try to get him back into the managing game. But he says, "I've promised himself that I was never going back into managing. And I'm going to keep that promise. Gentlemen, I'm sorry. I wish you the best of luck." Flair, stunned, pleads with him to stay. Bobby again apologizes and walks off…then doubles back with a briefcase. "Now, in 1988, I won the All-Madden Trophy. I was the manager of John Madden's team. Now everyone respects John Madden. My name is on the back of here with names like Joe Montana, Mike Ditka, Tom Landry, and right down here it says 'Manager Bobby Heenan.' Well I said I'd never manage again, but in Baltimore I will coach. I will be at ringside, and I'm going to show those football players what coaching is all about."



In Seinfeld parlance: I think it moved.

We get another Blood Runs Cold promo, and this time they finally name Glacier at the end of it.

After commercials, Heenan tells Bischoff that this coaching gig is a one-time thing. And then Bischoff sends it to…a Hulk Hogan video package. For the love of God. These are nauseating. Eric Bischoff does advertise that Hogan is going to be a part of Hog Wild in August.

WCW Title - The Giant (c) (w/ Jimmy Hart) vs. Ice Train: Alright, having The Giant wrestle is one thing, but don't just give title shots to randoms like Ice Train who haven't even been wrestling singles matches. I realize that's a relatively small thing, as Giant wins with a chokeslam in less than a minute.

Result: The Giant via pinfall

As Giant talks **** into the camera, suddenly Scott ****ing Norton appears and yells at The Giant a bit. Giant appears to shrug it off and starts to leave, but as soon as Norton turns his back The Giant goes back in and gives him the chokeslam as well. And another one. Probably wanted to force him to actually sell it.



Giant comes out of the ring and gets in Mean Gene's face. "WCW, why are you running film packages on Hulk Hogan? He's not the World Heavyweight Champion. I am! I don't want to see any more of Hulk Hogan." Preach.

After commercial, Scott Norton is still laid out in the ring. He was scheduled to wrestle against Hugh Morrus next, but he's in no shape to go. Still, Hugh Morrus's music hits, and he enters the ring.

Hugh Morrus vs. Scott Norton: Morrus drops a leg on Norton. Goes for a pin, pulls up before three. Drops a few elbows. The commentators talk about how Scott Norton can barely move. Norton, unable to bear the responsibility of selling any longer, suddenly makes it to his feet as Morrus is going to go for a moonsault. Morrus goes for the moonsault, Norton botches an intended catch of him and just sort of drops him, then throws a few forearms and suddenly applies some old man strength to hold Morrus down for a three-count. Shoot me in the face.



Result: Scott Norton via pinfall

After commercial, we get another lame training video of Mongo and Greene. If anything these clips should make everyone like them less. Both guys are incredibly obnoxious. They agree on a plan to try to enlist Randy Savage as their coach for the match.



Tag Team Titles - Sting & Lex Luger (c) vs. The Steiner Brothers: As they're starting in on this match, they get Randy Savage on the phone. Savage agrees that he'll coach the football players at Great American Bash. A terrified Heenan tries to talk him out of it, but fails miserably. He facepalms as the phone call signs off. The phone call tramples over nearly half of the main event match.

Nice belly-to-belly off the second rope by Rick Steiner on Lex Luger. Lex tags to Sting, who gets the Scorpion Deathlock on, but Scott is in for the save. Scott in with a belly-to-belly, then he sets Sting up top and connects on a top rope frankensteiner. Sting comes back with a reverse DDT before it was called a Scorpion Death Drop, then a tag to Luger. Torture Rack is broken up by Rick. Suplex outside the ring is broken up by Rick as well. Four-way chaos; Sting and Rick brawl outside. Rick backdrops Sting onto the concrete floor, but then The Giant suddenly appears out of the back and sort of botch chokeslams Rick on the concrete. Giant heads into the ring, and the bell starts ringing for the no contest. This match was going well until this.

Result: No Contest

Giant and Lex go at it, and suddenly Lex, Sting, and Scott all join forces to attack The Giant and collectively knock him out of the ring.



Heenan stares into the camera and grovels and begs for Randy Savage not to show up to Great American Bash as Bischoff laughs at him. As this is going on, Scott Hall crashes the party. "Yo, mang. Just relax, chico. Yo, Ken doll. I had such a good time last week that I came back for more. Relax mang, relax. You started it. You want to go to war, you got a war. You started it, we gonna finish it. … Did Daddy Warbucks get his money yet?"

Sting interrupts. Bischoff tells him not to even dignify it, then sticks a mic in his face. Sting addresses the fact that Hall has asked for three of the best from WCW. "I don't see two with you. All I see is you and me. So why don't we just do this one-on-one, right here, right now?" Hall says "Nobody tells me what to do, and nobody tells me when to do it." Hall flicks a toothpick in Sting's face, and Sting bottles up some rage for a moment before slapping him.



Security intercede and keep the fight from escalating. Hall says, "Okay, tough guy. I got a little - no, I got a BIG surprise for you next week." With that, Hall leaves, and the show goes off the air. Epic cliffhanger for tonight's episode.

Overall: As I always say, if you can end a show strong, you can make up for a lot. The show was a mixed bag overall. Building to a potentially great main event, then spending the first half of the match on a split-screen on a phone call, then ending in a non-finish for the second straight week between the same participants, is really lame. Scott Norton's win after being completely incapacitated was silly. The Horsemen tag match was too long. But Heenan's stuff was great, and the final scene between Hall and Sting was excellent. I would say that those things served more to mitigate the weakness of a lame episode than to actually succeed in making it a good one though.

RAW

Fayetteville, NC

We get a cold open showing highlights of Ahmed's temper tantrum against Goldust to end last week's show, and then some weird new footage of Goldust being half-naked and covering his crotch with the IC Title belt, telling Ahmed to "come and get it."

After the opening credits, Vince McMahon and Jerry Lawler say that it's official that Ahmed will get a title shot at Goldust at King of the Ring.

King of the Ring First Round - Steve Austin vs. Bob Holly: Quite a bit of tentative mat wrestling between the two men to start. Ted DiBiase gets buried a bit on commentary, as Jerry Lawler says that Steve Austin told him that he won't miss DiBiase one bit. If I remember correctly, Austin cut a promo on Superstars to that very effect. Nice backbreaker by Austin here, as he gets pretty strong heat from the live crowd. Second rope elbow gets two.

Austin is in control until Holly manages to crotch him along the top rope, and parlays it into control of the match until he attempts a corner mount and a 10-punch. Austin pushes him off, then waits behind him and slaps on the Million Dollar Dream. I'm surprised he was still using this at this point. I realize it was taped a week ago, but a week ago Ted DiBiase also delivered a promo that basically announced that he was leaving.



Result: Steve Austin via submission

They show clips of last week, when Jerry Lawler ran interference to help cause the Ultimate Warrior to get knocked out of the King of the Ring Tournament. Warrior was having WWF shill his comic book at the time; I like Lawler showing the comic that he was getting ready to release.



Mankind vs. Barry Horowitz: They mention that Mankind will take on Undertaker at King of the Ring. Vince throws it to Jim Ross, who says that Mankind will challenge Taker like he's never been challenged before. This match is completely boring, really on the low end of watchability even for a squash match. Mankind slaps on the Mandible Claw out of nowhere and gets the submission.

Result: Mankind via submission

Vince says that Undertaker is set to take on Davey Boy Smith on Raw next week. As he mentions this, Jim Ross comes to the ring to attempt to talk to Mankind. To his peaceful piano exit music, Mankind says, "I am hoping that The Undertaker WILL FINALLY STAND UP AND SHOW JUST A LITTLE BIT OF PRIDE! Or maybe before the King of the Ring he will decide that there is no sense in fighting a man WHO HAS NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE! Undertaker, you can't take my ear; it's already gone. You can't take my teeth; they're already gone. Of all the things in my life, I think I miss my mind the most. And at the King of the Ring, you're going to lose IT ALL!"



"Due to the technical difficulties at the PPV," they show extended clips of the main event between Bulldog and Michaels. But…that's not one of the matches that was interrupted by the technical difficulties.

Then we get clips of Goldust giving Ahmed Johnson mouth-to-mouth, and they go back to naked Goldust at home or wherever. He gives an interview with the IC Title belt covering his crotch.

The Godwinns (w/ Hillbilly Jim) vs. Tekno Team 2000: Sunny is in for commentary. Before the match starts, they go back to the Bodydonnas backstage, who say that they can succeed without Sunny, and add that they're looking everywhere for a new manager. Sunny is pretty good at the commentator gig; she was very talented, and far from just something good to look at. Henry Godwinn makes the pin after a Slop Drop.

[img]

Result: The Godwinns via pinfall

King of the Ring First Round - Hunter Hearst-Helmsley vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts: I almost find my reaction to 1996 Jake Roberts to be sort of weird. I'm such a big fan of prime Jake's work, including his babyface stuff, that it's strange that I have absolutely zero affection for this over-the-hill 1996 version of him, even as a nostalgia act. Every match he does is completely terrible, and he's given very little mic time on Raw or on PPV to actually justify being around (I'm guessing he could still do some awesome stuff on the mic here). This match is no exception to his consistent terribleness during this year. He does get to win though, hitting a DDT out of nowhere and rolling over to make the pin.



Normally Jake would not have gone over someone like HHH, but a couple of weeks ago HHH did what was once heavily taboo and what is now a complete obsession for Vince McMahon, breaking kayfabe at a house show. HHH, Diesel, Razor Ramon, and Shawn Michaels all hugged and celebrated together at the end of the show because Diesel and Razor were wrestling their last night in the company. Given the industry standard of the time, it was a complete jackass move on their part, and HHH fully deserved the jobbing spree he would go on. I realize that getting an extended punishment for such a thing would sound absurd today, but in my view it was totally justified here.

Result: Jake Roberts via pinfall

Jake takes the snake out of the bag, throws it on HHH, and twice threatens to stuff it down HHH's pants. Now THAT would be a punishment. Jake's post-match stuff ends the show.

Overall: This is sux. Just another dull show cranked out by the WWF. Mankind's promo was pretty good though I suppose.

---

Ratings for 5/27/96: Nitro 3, Raw 2.3
Ratings Running Score: Nitro 17-16-2

Better Show: I guess it's Nitro again. WWF rarely makes me think very hard about it.
Better Show Running Score: Nitro 29-6

Match of the Night: Man. Even weaker than when I usually call it a weak night. Sting/Luger vs. Steiners was going well until they butchered the hell out of the ending, so that's what I'm going with.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
12-10-2015 , 08:34 PM
I love how Tenta trying to stab a man with scissors not only isn't a DQ, but is a face turn. How is he the winner of a sporting event or a good guy for doing this? I suppose if nothing else it left an impression because I still remember the Shark match and promo to this day (and remember almost nothing else about that episode other than how old the Rock n Roll Express looked and the Heenan and Hall stuff).
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12-10-2015 , 08:39 PM
To think, Robert Gibson is just barely older than Kevin Nash. Less than a year.
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12-10-2015 , 08:43 PM
The difference in quality between the two shows continues to manifest itself in my level of enthusiasm when I sit down to work on this thread. "Okay, what's next? June 10. ... ****, Raw is up first that week. Oh well, when I get it out of the way I get to go Nitro --> WCW PPV --> Nitro." WWF just really followed the same dull model week after week, and the only real hope is that one of the promos or matches is surprisingly good in spite of the lazy writing. Time is a flat circle.
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12-10-2015 , 08:51 PM
And the ratings of WWF's secondary TV shows at this time were in the gutter because nothing important was happening on them. Sounds familiar...

It is so odd to look at that picture of the Rock and Roll Express and recall all the women screaming for them just 10 years before. Lesson is, if you are a sex symbol, don't chain smoke.
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12-10-2015 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moorobot

It is so odd to look at that picture of the Rock and Roll Express and recall all the women screaming for them just 10 years before. Lesson is, if you are a sex symbol, don't chain smoke.
Cocaine is a helluva drug!
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12-10-2015 , 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJD804
Cocaine is a helluva drug!
I tried to get a book on the downfall of WCW published. It was just those 5 words in really big font.
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12-11-2015 , 04:46 AM
I can feel the passion in LKJ's posts about Hogan and I like it. **** that guy. I am curious about that WW3 ending though and might watch it.
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12-11-2015 , 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moorobot
I tried to get a book on the downfall of WCW published. It was just those 5 words in really big font.
You guys may know this already but bischoff was asked by wade Keller in an interview whats the biggest mistake he made while running wcw. His response was accepting the extra money from TBS to do thunder. Said it watered down the product and take a toll on the writers and wrestlers. Very interesting considering most people believe the third hour of raw and meaningless secondary shows are a main problem for wwe now
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12-11-2015 , 04:05 PM
Before Thunder came out, WCW ran angles on all of their shows (Saturday Night especially, but Main Event, Worlwide, and Pro would all have angles from time to time also.). After it did, they all drifted more towards being complete throwaway shows; they transferred the effort from those shows to Thunder.

Meanwhile, WWF prior to Heat ran basically all the angles on Raw, and the other shows were complete throwaways. So if anything, Heat should have watered down Raw much more than Thunder watered down Nitro. But I don't remember Raw being impacted negatively much if at all. Nor negatively impacted by Smackdown. Maybe I'm remembering wrong about Raw not being negatively effected; perhaps we shall see in this thread.

Last edited by moorobot; 12-11-2015 at 04:24 PM.
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12-11-2015 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I can feel the passion in LKJ's posts about Hogan and I like it. **** that guy. I am curious about that WW3 ending though and might watch it.
Somehow even while writing that I didn't put the parallels together of the Hogan --> vacant --> Savage World Title switches in 1988 WWF and 1995 WCW. Of course having him actually job the title directly to Savage in either instance was probably not even considered, because he's Hulk Hogan.

1988: Hogan drops the belt to Andre the Giant by taking a bull**** pin when his shoulder was clearly up.
1995: Hogan drops the belt via DQ to "Andre's son" when he didn't even deserve to be DQ'd under any common sense interpretation.
1988: Hogan gets semi-legitimately eliminated in his quest to regain the vacated belt that he lost.
1995: Hogan gets screwed over and eliminated without any legitimacy in his quest to regain the vacated belt that he "lost."
1988: Hogan has to step in and cheat to help Savage win the title, making himself a focal point of someone else's moment, but at least graciously stands by and applauds as Savage has his moment.
1995: Hogan has to whine and cry and crap all over Savage's title win, filling the arena with boos and making sure that not one second of Savage's win got to be any sort of celebration.

From 1988 to 1995, Hogan basically transitioned from being Michael Corleone in the middle of The Godfather to being Michael Corleone at the end of Godfather Part II. He went from being a conniving snake that still has a shred of decency and puts up a decent front to being a conniving snake with zero redeeming qualities, who doesn't put on any sort of airs of being a decent guy.

Or, to put it in werewolf-speak, he just sort of shrugged and started wolfing in broad daylight by the time 1995 rolled around.
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12-11-2015 , 05:07 PM
Bischoff made the mistake of making it very clear that he thought Hogan was the key to winning the Monday Night Wars; he had a line that was something like "Whomever has Hogan wins in the end". So perhaps Hogan no longer felt he needed to hide it.
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12-11-2015 , 05:14 PM
wolfing in broad daylight #1 way to wolf
gets the smarks/dvc furious that the people on the show/ingame don't see it for what it is
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12-11-2015 , 05:16 PM
As a person that didn't get into wrestling into much later and even then exclusively watched WWF, seeing how awful WWF was at this time and how WCW was pretty damn solid is a cool experience. If I started here instead of a few years later I'd definitely be a WCW person
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
12-11-2015 , 05:17 PM
The thing with Hogan is that he does have that natural charisma that makes you want to believe him if the only side of the story you get is his. He's like a talented but deceitful politician; a person's approval level of him will heavily correlate with how much fact-checking they've seen on him.

That's why I've always had a tendency to defend him more than most simply from a performance standpoint. He's a tremendous performer, whether it's in the ring or on the Arsenio Hall Show.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
12-11-2015 , 05:39 PM
Hogan was on Flair's podcast recently and it was very good. Even though he is one of the great fabricators of our time, some part of me wanted to believe him and like him.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote

      
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