That's the same thing that can be said about Vince's turn. In his own head, it was going to be a babyface move to execute the screwjob and then calmly explain why it was the virtuous thing to do, but the crowd reaction dictated differently, at which point he just leaned into it as a turn. Same thing with Punk here.
I can accept that it might detract from execution points since it was kind of accidental, as I mentioned with the VKM example earlier.
Hey guys, won't be able to do write ups til prob tonight but don't wanna hold up the draft.
My two picks:
Spoiler:
Owen Hart turns on his brother
and
Spoiler:
"Mr Wonderful" turns on Hulk Hogan
Write ups to come.
"Mr. Wonderful" Paul Orndorff turns on Hulk Hogan:
So this turn has a special meaning to me, as it was the first turn I can remember as a wrestling fan.
Backstory: seems like a standard storyline from the Hogan era, but I believe this was the original. Hogan and Orndorff were friends and tag team partners, but Orndorff was always overshadowed by Hogan. Over time he began to show frustration, and it culminated in a tag team match of Hogan/Orndorff vs King Kong Buddy and Big John Studd.
Orndorff handled most of the match, as he wanted to prove he wasn't "Hogan Jr." While on the apron, Hogan ran into the ropes and knocked Orndorff off. Orndorff played it up like someone poked his eye out, and left Hogan to be double teamed. Following a decent length beatdown, Orndorff chased off the heels. After helping Hogan to his feet, Orndorff DESTROYED Hogan with a clothesline. He followed that by delivering a vicious piledriver and mocked the jeering crowd. Orndorff invited Studd and Bundy to the ring, before a bunch of rando faces saved Hogan. Orndorff left with the heels to massive boos.
This started a great feud with Hogan over the title, culminating in two matches. First one was in Toronto, in front of 76,000 fans:
After a ref bump, Hogan reenacts the turn on Orndorff, clotheslining him and setting him up for a pile driver. Heenan breaks it up by smashing Hogan in the back of the head with a chair and Orndorff covers him forever until the ref comes to. Ref eventually crawls over and slaps Orndorff three times (in the manner of a three count). Believing he has won the title, Orndorff and Heenan celebrate and put the title around his waist. Of course, the official decision is Hogan by disqualification, and he Hulks up and takes the belt back.
Orndorff got another shot in a cage match on Saturday Night Main Event (back when cage matches ended with one competitor escaping.) This match had the classic ending of both wrestlers hitting the ground at the same time. Match was restarted and (of course) Hogan retained the title.
Orndorff didn't do much of note after the Hogan feud, but other than that, this turn hit all the keys.
"Mr. Wonderful" Paul Orndorff turns on Hulk Hogan:
So this turn has a special meaning to me, as it was the first turn I can remember as a wrestling fan.
Backstory: seems like a standard storyline from the Hogan era, but I believe this was the original. Hogan and Orndorff were friends and tag team partners, but Orndorff was always overshadowed by Hogan. Over time he began to show frustration, and it culminated in a tag team match of Hogan/Orndorff vs King Kong Buddy and Big John Studd.
Orndorff handled most of the match, as he wanted to prove he wasn't "Hogan Jr." While on the apron, Hogan ran into the ropes and knocked Orndorff off. Orndorff played it up like someone poked his eye out, and left Hogan to be double teamed. Following a decent length beatdown, Orndorff chased off the heels. After helping Hogan to his feet, Orndorff DESTROYED Hogan with a clothesline. He followed that by delivering a vicious piledriver and mocked the jeering crowd. Orndorff invited Studd and Bundy to the ring, before a bunch of rando faces saved Hogan. Orndorff left with the heels to massive boos.
This started a great feud with Hogan over the title, culminating in two matches. First one was in Toronto, in front of 76,000 fans:
After a ref bump, Hogan reenacts the turn on Orndorff, clotheslining him and setting him up for a pile driver. Heenan breaks it up by smashing Hogan in the back of the head with a chair and Orndorff covers him forever until the ref comes to. Ref eventually crawls over and slaps Orndorff three times (in the manner of a three count). Believing he has won the title, Orndorff and Heenan celebrate and put the title around his waist. Of course, the official decision is Hogan by disqualification, and he Hulks up and takes the belt back.
Orndorff got another shot in a cage match on Saturday Night Main Event (back when cage matches ended with one competitor escaping.) This match had the classic ending of both wrestlers hitting the ground at the same time. Match was restarted and (of course) Hogan retained the title.
Orndorff didn't do much of note after the Hogan feud, but other than that, this turn hit all the keys.
This was always one of my favorites too and one of the first ones I remember seeing ever. Thought there was a bit more to it. Remembered something about a phone call, but couldn't remember what, so I googled: https://bostongardenbalcony.wordpres...n-for-the-wwf/
Always thought that so many other wrestlers turned on Hogan that he must be the true heel. If everyone's turning on him, must be something wrong with him.
The Orndorff turn was the first really big angle I remember as a kid. It was a fantastic angle. I was so disappointed I didn’t get to go to The Big Event in Toronto.
I read somewhere that the finish of the cage match was so that if Andre couldn’t be convinced to come back to do WM3, they had a rationale to extend the feud to then, because it was doing such amazing business. Have no idea if it’s true, but it made sense.
I remember something about Vince having to beg Andre to come back (which I'm sure we'll see in the doc on HBO), it just seemed strange that not only did he stay for Hogan, but another three years after that. The man couldn't move, but in some ways, as a child, that sort of made him all the more intimidating for me, maybe because he rarely bumped for anyone as well.
Some of this was copy-pasted from my first pick, but the aftermath is all new.
Round 3, Pick 2: The other half of the story
The background:
Bret Hart had decided to take some time off following his WWF title loss to Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 12. The Hitman would finally come back in the fall to announce his WWF return, and accepted the challenge laid down by who he called “the best wrestler in the WWF”, Steve Austin, for Survivor Series, where he would prevail in an extremely entertaining back-and-forth match. Bret expected that he would move on from Austin and focus on recapturing the WWF title.
Austin had other plans.
First, Austin interfered in a title match between Bret and Sid at the December In Your House PPV. Then, Austin literally stole the Royal Rumble from Bret, coming back into the ring unnoticed after being eliminated and dumping Bret to claim the victory:
Bret was becoming increasingly unhinged over Austin’s antics, ranting continually about getting screwed and even quitting the WWF for a night following the Royal Rumble. All seemed to be ok after Bret was granted a spot in a four-way title match including Austin, Vader and the Undertaker, with Bret finally claiming his fourth WWF title. But it lasted only one day, as Austin delivered the coup de grace the following night on Raw:
Bret had had enough, and a grudge match between the two was set for WrestleMania 13 — a submission match. But first, Bret got one more shot at the title the week prior to the big show, in a cage match with Sid. Austin, sensing the opportunity to make his grudge match that much more meaningful, came out to assist Bret, but the Undertaker saw HIS Mania title shot slipping away, and interfered decisively to give Sid the win. As they were tearing down the cage, Vince McMahon came into the ring to interview Bret, who SNAPPED:
You could argue that the heel turn took place right there — nobody likes a whiner, right? — but at the least, it served to raise the intrigue for the submission match that much more.
The turn:
Bret and Austin tore into each other from the opening bell. They went all over the ringside area, using chairs, the steel steps, the ringpost figure four, an electrical cable, and finally the ring bell in their assault. The crowd was starting to get behind Stone Cold more and more as the match wore on. Austin bladed, and his face was a bloody mess as they built to the climax, with Bret locking Austin in the sharpshooter. Austin, using all his strength left, powered out of the hold, but not fully, and the Hitman reapplied the hold in the middle of the ring, causing Austin to pass out. Bret was awarded the match, but was viciously booed after venting months of frustration by continuing to attack Austin after the bell, until being restrained by special referee Ken Shamrock. Bret left to more boos, and flipped off a couple of fans as he left. After nine years, the WWF’s most reliable babyface had just turned heel.
Right?
Well, kind of.
The aftermath:
Bret got a big chunk of time the following night on Raw to explain himself, and he started out oddly...by apologizing, to all of his fans in Germany, in Great Britain, all over Europe, in fact, in Japan, and especially to his fans in Canada. But then...
”And to you, my fans right here in the United States of America...to you, I apologize for nothing!”
Bret spent the rest of the promo running down Americans, unable to understand how they could have turned on him to cheer for “a gutless creep like Stone Cold Steve Austin”, or “a pretty boy like Shawn Michaels”, and punctuating with the memorable line, “Nobody glorifies criminal conduct like the Americans do!”
Somehow, Bret had turned heel in America...but nowhere else.
The following week, it got even more interesting, as Bret interrupted a match between tag team partners Owen Hart and The British Bulldog — a breakup that had been teased for weeks, ever since Bulldog beat Owen for the new European title — and asked for their help in his crusade against the evil Americans.
The new Hart Foundation would take in fellow family member Jim Neidhart and close family friend (and Austin antagonist) Brian Pillman, and they set off on one of the most unique storylines ever, one where they would be booed, cursed, spat on, etc. at events in the US, and treated like conquering heroes everywhere else. Most notably, the Foundation main evented a PPV in Calgary against a team led by Austin that turned out to be one of the best PPVs in WWF history.
The dynamic also had a huge hand in turning business around for good for Vince McMahon, as the Montreal Screwjob and the resulting Austin-McMahon feud would likely not have happened had Bret not felt his character was too important in Canada to drop the belt at Survivor Series to Shawn Michaels.
Both ends of the greatest double turn ever, by far? I’ll take that.
Team:
Steve Austin and Bret Hart double turn at WrestleMania 13
Randy Savage turns face in 1987
FWIW (not much) I firmly believe the Bret Hart side of that double turn is far more impressive from an artistic standpoint, although what it did for Austin had far more impact on business. That was always kind of Bret's curse: Creative genius (seriously one of the best storytellers ever) but lacked the "it" factor of the true money-making legends (Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.)
Maybe the most obvious number 1 pick in any draft we’ve ever done. I also think the promo Hogan cut that night might be the greatest promo he ever gave.
If you count SE, the criminal one had a more obvious #1 (OJ, of course).
I mean a lot of turns are swerves and expected. There wasn't ever a face turn moment before this. This was the official moment that led to one of the top Wrestlemania moments and a cultural phenomenon that swept sporting events across the country.
I wasn't watching wrestling at the time, so the timing of events is muddled to me. This event happened a month before the Wyatt family turn (December 9, 2013).
So Bryan wasn't a babyface here? I realize it was a hometown reaction, but when I first saw this, I assumed he was already a babyface.
I didn't even realize the Wyatt family turn was in January 2014. The entire Daniel Bryan joins the Wyatt family angle lasted only a month?
Yeah, it was a strange stupid story. The end game was obvious. I kind of more remember the DB face turn as part of his tag team with Kane. "I AM the tag team champions." "No, I AM the tag team champions."
And then everyone just went nuts for not just the YES thing, but the NO chants as well. Basically, I think they were chanting the opposite of whatever he chanted for a while before chanting with him.
Yeah, it was a strange stupid story. The end game was obvious. I kind of more remember the DB face turn as part of his tag team with Kane. "I AM the tag team champions." "No, I AM the tag team champions."
And then everyone just went nuts for not just the YES thing, but the NO chants as well. Basically, I think they were chanting the opposite of whatever he chanted for a while before chanting with him.
I mean these are heel tactics. Taking all the credit for the team winning. Carrying both belts around all the time so Kane doesn't have one.
He snaps and puts Shawn Michaels in the Yes lock, refuses to break it when Michaels taps and has to be dragged off by multiple refs. He was a heel through the tag run, became a tweener vs the authority but never had an actual face turn until the Wyatt cage match. He was crazy over with the fans through all this but story-line wise he wasn't a full face.
If someone wants to point out the face turn by all means go ahead. But he was clearly a heel coming out of Team Hell No and there's no moment before they manufacture one with Wyatt. Shawn was reffing straight until Bryan attacked his best friend HHH so even if HHH is a heel that's justified in Shawn's mind. Just because he's getting massive cheers doesn't make him a face just like Reigns was never a heel despite getting massive boos.
FWIW (not much) I firmly believe the Bret Hart side of that double turn is far more impressive from an artistic standpoint, although what it did for Austin had far more impact on business. That was always kind of Bret's curse: Creative genius (seriously one of the best storytellers ever) but lacked the "it" factor of the true money-making legends (Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.)
^^^^^ I'd have had it at #3. It's brilliant and just overshadowed by Austin being Austin.
This doesn’t quite have the shock value of most of them here, but over the long term this face turn is one of the most consequential of all-time.
Spoiler:
John Cena refuses Paul Heyman’s offer
Spoiler:
John Cena famously answered Kurt Angle’s open challenge in mid-2002 saying that he had “ruthless aggression”. He lost, but it was a competitive match and would set the stage for a pretty solid push that saw him face the likes of Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero and Brock Lesnar among others over the next year or so. For much of this time, he had adopted this Vanilla Ice style gimmick, a heel who would cut rap promos on his opponents before their match.
In 2003, Angle would defeat Cena at No Mercy. On an episode of SmackDown, Paul Heyman and Brock Lesnar came to recruit Cena to go against Kurt Angle’s team.
Cena refused, saying that “no one tells John Cena what to do” and derided Lesnar’s team of Matt Morgan, Big Show and Nathan Jones as “Team Sasquatch”. A-Train would attack from behind, joining Lesnar’s team instead. The entirety of Team Lesnar would get their licks in, including a nasty Lesnar chair shot to the head of Cena, that sounded really cool, but I’m really glad they don’t do that anymore.
Angle would later recruit Cena to his team, much to the chagrin of Benoit.
His initial raps as a face were reasonably well-received, though don’t really age well culturally.
Team Angle would win their Survivor Series match, with Cena and Benoit surviving.
The rest, as they say is history. Although he’s since traded in his Doctorate in Thuganomics for a life of Hustle Loyalty Respect, this turn was the start of it all. Nearly 15 years later, John Cena has remained a face, and has become one of the most successful performers of all-time.
Spoiler:
Mr Perfect face turn (1992)
Kevin Owens heel turn (2013)
John Cena face turn (2003)
FWIW (not much) I firmly believe the Bret Hart side of that double turn is far more impressive from an artistic standpoint, although what it did for Austin had far more impact on business. That was always kind of Bret's curse: Creative genius (seriously one of the best storytellers ever) but lacked the "it" factor of the true money-making legends (Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.)
I completely agree. The Austin part of the turn was inevitable. He was going to turn eventually. Bret going heel was shocking in a way that Austin going face wasn't. And the dynamic of the Harts being heel in the US and babyface in Canada was awesome.
The Shield became one of the top factions in recent WWE history almost immediately on their debut as a kind of chaotic neutral group serving out justice. They became a dominant group for hire and flirted with both face and heel alignments for a while before settling in at the top of the card feuding with Cena/Bryan and then the Wyatt Family and finally The Authority which cemented the group as some of the top faces in the company. But as they started to lose for the first time in the group's history one member became increasingly frustrated until it boiled over and he joined The Authority to advance his career. After beating The Authority and the reformed Evolution, Triple H came down to the ring to face The Shield and told them that while Evolution had been Plan A to destroy The Shield, he always had a Plan B. Rollins then attacked Roman Reigns and Dean Ambrose with a steel chair, dismantling The Shield and setting himself as the top heel in the company.
A successful heel run followed with Rollins capturing Money in the Bank and going on to become the first person to ever cash in at Wrestlemania when he defeated Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns to become WWE World Heavyweight Champion
Team so far:
Spoiler:
Savage turns face and reunites with Miss Elizabeth
Daniel Bryan embraces the Yes Movement
Rollins dismantles The Shield
