Outside of in ring work I have Rollins much closer to tolerable than great, but it is good to see promising young guys.

Wrestling will always be in business despite everything because young entertaining wrestlers keep developing.

He was trolling this time.

Just curious, what is your big problem with Rollins?

He's no Cesaro or Bryan, but I'd put him in the top ten for in-ring stuff. And he's probably average to maybe a little below (but improving) on the mic, but he's certainly not Roman Reigns or Brie Bella level bad to the point where it's a detraction.

Obviously, he can't be booked like a monster champion like Lesnar or Undertaker, but I don't see why he can't be a believable slimy heel champion like Edge was in the mid- to late-2000s.

Curious to know LKJ's answer as well but average on the mic isn't close to good enough given how much Rollins talks. In another time and place maybe he could be a heel champ, or if they have a mouthpiece for him and cut him to a few short (under 2 minutes with a mic) interview segments a month. I want to turn the channel or fast forward after a couple of lines much of the time. I can tell from the crowds during these segments that I'm far from alone. To talk that much you have to be not average, not good, but truly great. So I disagree that it isn't a detraction.

I would agree that the Edge comparison is the best one you could make for him in terms of what type of champion he could be, but:
1. Edge was far better on the mic;
2. Edge was far more legitimately over;
3. Edge had a lot more charisma and star quality; and, probably most importantly:
4. Edge had been booked a lot more like a legit superstar who would find ways to beat you.

Rollins has been pushed pretty hard, but has never been brought across as a guy who would be able to handle his own **** without being backed up by some super-group (first the Shield, then the Authority). Edge played the sleazeball who would cheat and deceive, but you basically got the feeling that the bastard would find a way to beat a top guy. Yes he would get help from Lita, but having a valet who will occasionally scratch your opponent's eyes or something is a far cry from rolling in Kane and Randy Orton and HHH to make sure that you win.

A lot of what Rollins is getting at this point is cheap heat, and I think that he's a fair bit closer in terms of credibility with the audience to Honky Tonk man circa 1988 than to Edge circa 2005.

I'm not saying that I think that Rollins lacks the talent or potential to eventually get there, because I think that he might, but it seems like a pretty huge stretch to put the world title on him right now, as he would be pretty easily the least credible champion since Alberto Del Rio in 2011.

Yeah. That. Both of you.

Bsaically, you'll never know if he can be Edge because basically the booking sucks and will continue to suck into the future if the last couple weeks are any indication at all. It's as if the bookers are stuck in a mode where they either don't think they have a legitimate credible heel or it's new people and it just never occurred to them that heels can actually win matches against top talent with the help of less than three other people.

At the same time, I think he's shown enough flashes that it's worth taking the training wheels off and finding out.

I don't see why Rollins doesn't win matches using foreign objects or using the ropes illegally etc; cheating on his own, basically. It seems the WWE has an aversion to such endings in favor of repeated goonterference.

But in this feud, who was the reason that it was so great? Do you think it was 50/50 from each side, or did one of them carry it? From my seat Ambrose was the far more compelling character, the far more compelling reason that the feud was a good one. And further, I give that quite a bit of credit, because the babyface being the far more interesting character that carries a face-heel feud is a huge rarity in today's WWE.

And despite this being a faction war, the Shield had a clear go-to in terms of mic work: let Dean do most of the talking and keep the mic work of Reigns and Rollins short to protect them.

^With both of the above examples, I'll happily give Rollins approximately the same amount of credit as Dean for the in-ring stuff, but we know that's only one part of the equation, and that when it came to the other stuff Ambrose was talking and acting circles around Rollins.

It's fair to say that Ambrose's year petered out at the end because he was the latest poor soul to be drawn into Bray Wyatt's vortex of suck; I would agree with that. I'm sure that it doesn't need to be said that if Rollins had been the one drawn into the same spot that it would have fallen flat also.

I do think that Rollins did a good job at Survivor Series, and I take nothing away from that. I just disagree entirely with giving him equal credit to Dean on (1) the Shield stuff and (2) the feud with Dean.

Yep. Those endings would be WAY better. Again I think it's a pretty big difference between a win where a wrestler cheats vs. a win where outside guys basically beat a wrestler's opponent for him and then all he does is execute the pin. Not all dirty finishes are created equal.

(nod)

Basically you could plug anyone more talented and believable than Hornswoggle into Rollins' role right now, the way it's been booked. Which is pretty unnecessary given how he GOT to that point.

How would you define cheap heat? When I saw this I thought that Rollins would be a good intercontinental title contender the golden era.

I guess my quick definition of cheap heat is that he's getting heat from doing stuff that literally anyone could do (such as being draped over top of an unconscious opponent while doing little of the damage) rather than executing good heel work.

The HTM midcard title run worked well, but again he was winning more like Edge than Rollins. He was also a decent talker and played a heat-drawing gimmick really well.

Transplanting this current Rollins into the IC Title scene in the Golden Era is difficult because you just can't translate some things directly in terms of how his push has gone...a heel authority isn't going to spend a whole year positioning a guy for a midcard belt.

I again feel compelled to say that I'm not a hater of Rollins. I think that he's promising.

Certainly a useful distinction to draw. It might be harder to get non-cheap heat (at least without getting turned) today because of the crowds and because guys aren't given as much freedom, but Heyman and HHH clearly have been able to pull it off, so it's not impossible.

It's also tougher today to get over with legit heel work because part of what makes that work is good babyface commentary (which displays a proper amount of disgust with the heel's actions), and unfortunately Jim Ross isn't walking back through that door. It's a lot harder to control the crowd through Michael ****ing Cole.

And whomever does walk through that door is going to be told to basically do the things that Michael Cole does, not what JR did.

Rollins hasn't been booked as strong as I would like, but I don't know who's a more credible main event heel. Like after WM when either Reigns or Bryan is champion, and Brock goes away, who else would they feud with? Bray and Rollins will be the only main event heels they could feud with unless Sheamus returns as a heel. Maybe they don't turn Orton but that seems unlikely. I guess they could move Rusev into the main event but that seems unlikely too.

You're right that there's a problem in a lack of legit main event heels after Brock.

Ideally I'd like to see Bryan win back the title at Mania and then have Reigns heel turn on him and do a worked shoot declaring that Bryan stole his spot (which could easily be the reality of the situation; they may bail on actual plans for Reigns in favor of Bryan). Face Bryan vs. heel Reigns with that background sounds pretty intriguing, and assuming he can actually return to 100% from his injury, I'm sure that Bryan can carry Reigns to decent-to-good matches.

I wouldn't mind heel Reigns in the main event if they had Vince be an on screen character for it.

"This is my company. When it does well I make money. When it doesn't, I lose money. I have been around for decades. I have been on top for decades. Because I know what makes money. And you -pointing to the crowd- don't! This makes money! -points to Reigns's physique! Ugly, tiny, boring, puny men like Daniel Bryan don't!"

This would be a very good storyline that would benefit Bryan and Reigns and be enjoyable to the viewing audience. So I give it almost no chance of happening.

Yeah, it's certainly the route that I would go, but I won't hold my breath. I'd consider turning him and putting him with The Authority, who boot Rollins out and turn him face which I think he's better-suited for. This would all be after Mania; I'm guessing they're doing Orton-Rollins for Mania, which should be a good program.

Bump. This year could be fun.

Nice bump. Someone else can run. I'm looking forward to self-nominating for POTY.

dat bump

dont think ill be doing it this year but if anyone else wants to give it a shot feel free